Supreme or Humans first.

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Re: Supreme or Humans first.

Post  JTizzel on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:29 am

I, a Human being, just arrived home from the mountains, nature. I scanned like everyone's comments and I was interested in the debate of Time. If we take it back to the initial question of Supreme Power, or Humans coming First, its putting time on a linear scale, its putting time like a ruler with the 0 cm mark coming before the 2 cm mark. Its saying chemistry comes before chinese on mondays. Yet, is time really linear and definate? Lets take a clock for example, a clock has numbers from 1 to 12 and the miniute hand and the hour hand just keep on going clockwise, or rotating right. If one says:

The hour hand reaches the 12 hour mark before the 2 hour mark.

This is not true all the time. This is true in terms of the 12 hour and 2 hour relative to the 12 hour mark being the start of rotation. What if the hour hand started at the 1 hour mark. Thus, the statement wouldn't hold true. Its like saying Shocked Cool 2 smilys
Which one came first?
some might say Shocked some might say Cool yet i don;t even know myself. Came first interms of the word "saying" or came first interms of the numeral "2" coming backwards?
Who knows?


Jtizzels Theory
Time is relative and indefinate until humans made it concrete and tangible. Time doesn't tick, time doesn't vanish, time doesn't get wasted, "Time" doesn't exist. Time is just the future, the present, and the past.

OK, seems like Im digressing here with time being linear and blah. My point is, time is fairly relative. Supreme or humans coming first....IN TERMS of what starting point. Which hour mark is the start? What is the origin of everything when time Starts, when the hour hand starts rotating. When? Where? what? How? Im sure everyone is like, no one would know. True dat, no one knows the origin. Even if you were there, you might not noe. I just found that interesting. One is in a mothers uterus for 10 months and no one they were there until someone told them the process of reproduction.

Time is really abstract, just like everything we are discussing here. I reckon Ms. Kays intention or our intentions to ask such questions is placing the importance of learning on the process rather than the ending. Not being an existentialist, I reckon we will not reach an answer of what came first and what came after, but essentially a better understanding of the distinction between the two and a better idea of where each one stands in our lives. In the end,

We do not know the starting mark of time. Its a 2 varable equation with only 1 equation. Yet, we come up with my theories just like the 2 variables having many different combinations that hold true.

2x+3y=10

x, y combinations could be (2,2) (5,0) etc....
What Im trying to say is....its 11:30 and i should go to sleep. 11:30 doesn't exist. Only the present being wat we so call 11:30 exists.
Supreme or Humans the qustion is who came first, yet they both exist. They both exist in the present. I therefore am careless about the past.
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Re: Supreme or Humans first.

Post  Kenny on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:36 am

Really great answer Jt, I like the "live for the now" idea you present in your reply.

But we aren't pursuing the question of time because we DON"T focus on the now, rather, it's a just a curiosity, so even if it doesn't matter which came first, we're just questioning it for the sake of questioning.

Still, really great that you pointed that out.

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Re: Supreme or Humans first.

Post  Fionaaa :) on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:01 am

hm. the feeling after reading your post, JT, is like the feeling after watching meteors in the night sky - entertaining yet simultaneously enlightening.

Time is relative and indefinate until humans made it concrete and tangible. Time doesn't tick, time doesn't vanish, time doesn't get wasted, "Time" doesn't exist. Time is just the future, the present, and the past.

i was just thinking, [a slight digression here] if time is abstract, if time is indefinite, then why were we created in a way that we almost have to make time tangible?
what i mean is, we only get a century to live and discover the meaning of life. a hundred years in midst of billions of years. it's like a grain of sand in the universe. not very much, eh? so it's almost natural that we feel like we're racing against time all the time.
there's just so much to do in so little time.
If the supreme being came first, why did it create us so that we have to deal with this kind of restriction?
how do we rest and not focus on time if we know that everyday is another day gone by?

I reckon Ms. Kays intention or our intentions to ask such questions is placing the importance of learning on the process rather than the ending. Not being an existentialist, I reckon we will not reach an answer of what came first and what came after, but essentially a better understanding of the distinction between the two and a better idea of where each one stands in our lives.

I agree. it's impossible to settle on an answer in these discussions, because the topic we're covering cannot be detailed in words.
what runs through all life, what powers the entire universe, simply cannot be encapsulated with words, words created by the human mind to communicate w/ each other.
the single way to touch on an answer is through feeling and emotion, neither of these being able to be communicated with language.
these discussions are merely here to bring us out of ignorance, to understand life a little better.
through the process of these discussions, we are carried to new heights that will, one day, help us individually touch on the answer.
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Re: Supreme or Humans first.

Post  stephsquared on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 am

Wow Fee! nice synthesis!

i agree-- we're discussing the Universe here! The two most fundamental aspects of essence, the Universal Being/ Supreme Being--two magnificent forces/powers that runs through the universe. We're just human beings living in the local domain. Although we're very knowledgeable and well aware of the non-local, we're still in the physical domain. Of course we can't encapsulate the two powers of the Universe in words.

i think the power we have to feel, and have emotions and all sorts of energies running in and out of us is just absolutely amazing. To feel the universal Being/ or Supreme Being is an awareness that those two forces of the world are present--within us even. Not only do they exist, but they're existing within or as apart of our lives. We can feel the connectedness and the higher being present to guide us. Through these feelings or senses of these two forces, we're in touch with our inner Self, or should i say it is an act of spontaneity? Spontaneously, we feel a great connection within us, and a spiritual enlightenment/refreshment within us. For example, the thought of God may lead people to feel safe and might even, somehow, spiritually revive them. Kind of.( i don't know if that's a good example, but something like that) ok, so like Tizzle said what came first might have not came first right? even though in the physical domain, there is "time"--conceptual measurement of sequence/ or order. So we will place one infront of another saying that this was here and THEN that came. so this is first, that second. in the nonlocal domain where the UNiversal Being/ Supreme Being exists, there is no time. So i guess we can't distinguish which one came first. We can just know that they exist at the same time beacuse we have this piece of information through our sense and feelings of connectedness and spiritual growth/ enlightenment; in other words, we get this from our intuition. we know they exist by spontaneous feelings and senses--intuition.

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Re: Supreme or Humans first.

Post  hen on Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:56 pm

Everything i say in this post i have said in my previous posts, yet it seems most people aren't paying enough attention to individual posts due to the length and large quantities of posts in total. So here's yet another simplification:

-Humans, in a physical sense, are part of the local domain. Our souls originated from the nonlocal, yet I do not believe that they remain there (hence the usage of "originated"). At most, souls are at the quantum domain.

-We do, however, have a link to the non local domain. Yet a mere link does not equate to full presence, to us actually existing in the non local domain. Judging from this, the concept of linear time does not apply the same way to us here in the local domain (if it did, we'd be neither living nor dead, born nor unborn).

-Because it doesn't apply that way, we humans have not actually existed since the creation of the universe. From our standpoint, and assuming that you believe in the theory of the supreme being, we, humans, have originated from the supreme being, and therefore, come after it.
-If you don't believe in the theory, then to you, the supreme being is no more than a mere system of thoughts created by man. In this sense, the supreme being (the concept of it at least) is a production of the human mind, and therefore it comes after.

-From a non local standpoint, yes, we exist simultaneously, as at that level time is linear.

...But we're not in a non local standpoint, so I don't believe we can judge the same way.
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Re: Supreme or Humans first.

Post  hen on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:05 pm

@joanne
I was using that to show that humans and everything created by humans are a part of nature, nothing really beyond that. I'm not too sure how you ended up with thoughts regarding the supreme being. As to why we're actually having this discussion, you'll have to backtrack to one of ken's posts.

@joyce
If you use the term "human beings," then you're most likely referring to us, the physical species (and maybe our souls as part of the collective). Not all souls are coined "human beings," so to use the two terms interchangeably is actually rather misleading, but either way, as long as you're using the term "human," then you're specifying the subject to our physical species, even if you don't mean to focus on that aspect.
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Re: Supreme or Humans first.

Post  BC on Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:07 pm

Ty for all posts T_T.. I was hoping for 40 posts max...

But thanks anyway Razz

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