Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

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Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  joyceychen on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:59 pm

Hey everyone Smile
In Soph's thread, Kenneth revealed the secrets to The Secret and the possible truth of the Law of Attraction (LoA):
What many of you have been saying and what I realized is that the law of attraction is not really a law or rule that exists in the universe, rather, it's a mindset, a mind rule created by humans to help with living life. If you think about this, hard, you'll notice that the secret does nothing whatsoever to change our reality, it just shifts or perspectives, changes our mindsets, and morphs our way of dealing with the world. I don't think there's any law of attraction that exists in the world but in the minds of men. and women.

So pretty much what I'm trying to say is that there's no point trying to get this law of attraction to work and be disappointed and think you're doing something wrong when it doesn't. Because it's not there, not really, it's just a matter of how you think, if you view this thing as good, then it is, if you view it as bad, then it is. No one can control the universe and make it do his/her bidding just with the power of their thoughts. That's preposterous, like henning said, if two people had conflicting interests, what then? Conflicting interests result from different views of the world in how it works, what happens, and how it should be reacted to.

The law of attraction is there to help you better enjoy life and accept your place in it, it's easier to adapt rather than change, especially with something as massive as the universe as your prospect. There is no secret to life, there is no special formula to help you in life. The only way to live, is to live.

So with this new definition, my question is more of application: what is your personal view of the LoA? (was it what Kenneth said?) We've spent so much time discussing both inside and outside of class, face-to-face and on the internet, the various theories and beliefs presented by the Transcendentalists, Osho, The Secret, etc. Ms. Kay told us how "life-changing" this unit can be, depending on how much of it you take in - meaning you are still in control of your learning and what goes in and out of your life, what you get from teachings. So please take a moment, and just reflect. Has all of this just been "another belief system" (think of religions) or something much more? Care to share how this unit's stuff has impacted your life. Ancedotes are more than welcome Smile

and please, be completely honest. Smile

[sorry if my thread seems a bit.....corny, shall we say? But this is pretty much something I'm rather curious about. It's really interesting to learn about other's experiences, especially people we see almost everyday]

links:
http://www.experiencefestival.com/forum/open-oneness-forums/269758-different-perspective-law-attraction.html#post281635
http://www.powerfulintentions.org/forum/topics/a-different-perspective-on-the (LOTS OF ACTIVITY HERE)
http://www.the-secrets-of-the-law-of-attraction.com/a-different-perspective-on-the-law-of-attraction.html
(waiting account approval for this 4th site that looks more promising than the 3rd one)


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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  BC on Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:21 pm

First post!

edit if possible


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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Philly_CS on Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:53 pm

Second poast!

To be honest, I've already written a whole diagnosis of LoA complete with examples and questions (and answers). So since I don't want to bore anyone with my two screen-ful wad of text, I'll just rewrite it in a more concise way. Kapeesh?


Now for the last question, the belief system vs. something more, I would have to say it is a combination of the two. Considering that the thoughts of the mind can indeed 'manipulate' the physical world (Placebo Effect), the answer could be "it is a belief system, and therefore it is something more." To be honest, when we're talking about belief system/religion in general, are we just talking about Christianity and Buddhism and whatnot? It seems that everyone has a different point of view: moral, emotional, blah. This is what makes "this person's Christianity" different from "that person's Christianity." One might think abortion is right under circumstances yet another might think that it is wrong in all circumstances.

Pulling back, the entire unit has been a huge chunk of teaching about....well, life in general. It has inspired me to create more through my hyperactiveness/happiness. It has changed my way of looking at things. It has even helped me get through nights when the homework load is just painful, torturous, even. Adding on to what Ken said, yes, this is all just thoughts and all, but aren't these thoughts capable of changing our perspective and make the world appear to change? There is no secret to life, there is no special formula to help you in life. The only thing you can really change (for sure) is your perspective.

This change of perspective is extremely useful, practical, and, well, I dunno, seems almost too easy to use it. Let's say (oh gee I'm going to have a bunch of text again) you have a lot of homework. I'm sure most, if not all of you guys, still remember this experience. Now okay, think about it this way: you don't have a lot of homework. You can compare your workload with the person taking AP Bio or, if you're in AP Bio, compare your workload with regulars/honors. If all else fails, just be glad that you have two hands and a healthy mind to finish the homework with. This is why gratitude is so important. Once you are grateful of the things and tools you have, everything appears easier. Imagine trying to finish Eng test without your writing hand, or imagine that you get ill right before AP exams. Things can be much worse. Things can always be much worse.

So, to avoid cluttering up the entire forum like I did in Soph's discussion, I'll just end my post here. Gee, am I glad I have a computer at home to type this response with. [/instant happiness]
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Fermin Liu on Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:17 pm

Hey Joyce! Very Happy

First off, I really like your question because I think I've had many experiences with the LoA so I have a lot to say. Laughing

Like what Kenneth said about the law of attraction, I think that it is simply a guide to help us find happiness. There is no law or no 'miraculous' attraction; the law of attraction's main purpose essentially is to remind us of the things we have and should be grateful for and just be happy about everything. Whether our energy actually attracts our object of desire to us through essence is beside the point. The gist of Transcendentalism is believing that we have the power to do anything--which will thus make us feel powerful and happy. It's really all about how we look at things--our perspectives. While some of us choose to see the glass as halt empty, others will say it's half full. By always thinking positively and being grateful, satisfied, and just geniunely happy for all the things we are privileged to have in life, we will no longer think of the things we want and thus, we will ultimately cease to want materialistic things that we simply want but do not need because we will realize that we already have everything that we can possibly want or need. Very Happy

I'll be sharing my experiences with the LoA in future posts. Smile As for right now, I'm going to study English! I just wanted to reply to your question because I like it so much, Joyce! Very Happy And Bradley, that was so funny Laughing ~
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Annie Fu on Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:39 pm

In my opinion, the Law of Attraction works like this (and i do think it exists, just not in the way people may expect):
When you want something bad enough, which is when you're applying the secret to life and wishing with all your being, then the universe will work through you to help you manifest that desire, so in a way it's really just you doing the work, but you're being inspired by the universe. That is much like what Ms. Kay said in class and waht the video said - and what we read in emerson: you put in the order, then open yourself up to the universe and allow it to work its powers THROUGH you. Often when we wish for something hard enough, we get ideas and plans of actions in order to make that wish come true - these are from the "central intelligence", the "universal being", these are INTUITIONS, which we then much follow through by acting upon it instead of letting it go to waste. It is when we act upon this intuition will then our desires be manifested.

So what happens when two pepole have contrasting desires? Hm. I believe that everything happens for a reason, and I've actually asked Ms Kay that question before. When this happens, whatever the outcome is, it would be for a reason. You may not get that specific thing you wanted, but you would get something that would be best for you. You may not get that specific house you asked for, but you would get another one that you may find better suits you. the universe is abundant right? so it would find a way to make things work, even if it's not in the exact way that you played out in your mind. This parallels the aphorism "try your best and accept wahtever the outcome", right? so do all you can, and accept what is manifested, because that particular thing is manifested for you at this particular moment for a specific reason.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  shawanne on Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:44 pm

So with this new definition, my question is more of application: what is your personal view of the LoA? (was it what Kenneth said?) We've spent so much time discussing both inside and outside of class, face-to-face and on the internet, the various theories and beliefs presented by the Transcendentalists, Osho, The Secret, etc. Ms. Kay told us how "life-changing" this unit can be, depending on how much of it you take in - meaning you are still in control of your learning and what goes in and out of your life, what you get from teachings. So please take a moment, and just reflect. Has all of this just been "another belief system" (think of religions) or something much more? Care to share how this unit's stuff has impacted your life. Ancedotes are more than welcome Smile

Joyce, this isn't corny at all! Very Happy Srsly.

I think the best lesson this unit gave me was, similar to what someone else had said already [/too lazy to look], that I gained a better understanding of myself and the people around me, how my being/ego-mind functions as a whole, and ultimately how it all connected together and gave me a somewhat different outlook on my life than when I first came into the class. I found myself actually appreciating the good things around me more (although sometimes I'm still kind of screwy~I need more practice, lol) and well...things have generally been going uphill. I don't want the things I used to long for so much anymore, and I think this unit has helped me practice...moderation, in a way? Razz. I'll come back and like, say more stuff later when I've thought it out~

Oh and some fun: More evidence of the Secret!
I was waiting for the pink bus like, last last week, and I kept thinking 'pink bus' and it actually came within ten seconds of my thinking of it~XDD.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  hen on Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:53 pm

i'll just leave this here...

hen wrote:to answer this, I'll give you my personal interpretation of the secret.
I believe that this idea of "as long as i think about it, i will get it," is far too simplified, and describing it with mainly materialistic needs was misleading. The way the video presents it, it almost seems as if the secret were no more than some sort of mind trick to get things that you want.

That's ridiculous. if anyone could have anything they wanted, and even had the support of the universe, we'd be in one heck of a huge mess right now. to contradict the theory, here's another thing that I believe many may have thought of.
If I really, really want to live, but another person really, really wants me to die, what happens? Reality rips into shreds?

So I walked away from the film with not the message "as long as you think about it, you will get it sooner or later, no exceptions," but "one of the key strategies to living is to maintain a positive outlook. doing so will make your life look positive as a result."
I find that if taken in this respect, then yes, our being does seem to have a hand in the law of attraction, but maybe not the way most of us expected.

By maintaining a positive outlook in even the hardest of times, which is a sort of attitude that can only be developed through extensive control of the ego mind (i.e. judging with the being instead), all things will appear to work in our favor. After all, long as you don't take it negatively, you won't take it as something working against you.

exact same concept, mentioned three days before ken.


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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Michael Chen on Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:53 pm

Hey guys
I think Kenny had a pretty good grasp of the Law of Attraction. The mind afterall does create OUR realities( notice the capitalization of "our") and a shift in our mindset can afterall make a difference in reality which is heavily dependent on our various perceptions of reality. I think that the actual "getting something because you want it" definition is too physical and rather not conceptual enough to capture the point of the LoA. It's actually the thoughts and ideas generated from this changed mindset that makes a difference in reality. Much like poems, the way we see our world is just as important as what it actually physically composes of. Also, much like our argument between fate and freewill, "so far as we think", we create realities of our own and can transcend boundaries (really, if you think about it, there are none). So i pretty agree with most of you who say that the image of LoA given from the video is oversimplified and is misleading.

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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Vincent_Lee on Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:59 am

The Secret isn't really a documentary as much as it is a self-help video, albeit one that maintains a pretense of being factual and scientific and whatnot. Bluntly put. I think it's a pretty clever ploy. Nice way to sell it to the masses.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  proey on Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:57 am

Well.... Sometimes I don't know what to believe. At times the LoA works like magic, and makes life all "Hallelujah" and everything, like everyday is a miracle and there is no reason whatsoever to be sad. And then at times it completely fails us, and we are so depressed that we want to kill ourselves. This is where all those religious concepts of karma, and good and bad, and happy and sad, all that stuff come from.

I'm really indecisive about this actually. What Ken said about what if people have opposing ideas... Well, maybe one of these people shouldn't have that opposing idea. I mean if we all came from that collective consciousness, shouldn't everything fit perfectly together, like a puzzle? And we are merely diverted from the path we take by the ego mind, and that kills the utopia that the world actually is? That's a pretty radical idea. And it sounds so damn good Smile

But then again, IS there a utopia? What if this is what the world was meant to be--that the law of attraction is merely something that motivates yourself and only yourself, and cannot affect anything other than yourself? Like what Lee said about The Secret, that it is just like a self help vid. Like, the ego mind was created for a reason. So despite the utopia that the collective Intuitions of all the entities in the universe create, the ego mind exists as its opposite. There is that theory that nothing exists without an opposite. There is no happy without sad, there is no black without white. "Take the pain away from love and love won't exist." (lyrics to a song. kinda fitting.) So, there is no perfection without disorder. So, in essence, our world is perfect in the way that it is imperfect. The law of attraction is just a mindset that helps us get through life with that optimistic attitude, despite that it does not work on anything but ourselves. Someone said it before--we can't control the universe.

Then what does control the universe?
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Andy.S on Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:33 pm

I agree with Kenny's theory. The LoA is a mindset that serves no other purpose than produce a different and hopefully better attitude in life. I myself like the idea of getting what I want, but it really messes with our previous mindsets. Like for now, I have trouble "living" my life because I have aboslutly no idea what life is. All of these discussions kind of get us tangled to the point of confusion beyond our original selves. I don't know, I sort of regret knowing about these things because I can never go back from where I was before. But I guess this is the price for knowledge. Besides, now thinking in a more positive light I feel a lot more fulfilled then before. These LoA and ego-mind things may seem like silly concepts, but at least it had some sort of impact in my life.

Alright, to answer proey's question, it really depends on your faith. One could say the Universe is controlled by a miraculous "being" in the form of God...but I think the universe runs by itself. The Universe is like a living system, a never ending cycle. But what I do not know is what keeps the universe ticking. Everything needs some kind of resource to sustain itself, so what does the universe feed on?
Souls? Just kidding: P

But then again, you won't be able to answer that if you did not believe the Universe lives upon itself...so it is still a matter of faith, logic, and belief.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Vincent_Lee on Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:35 pm

proey wrote:I'm really indecisive about this actually. What Ken said about what if people have opposing ideas... Well, maybe one of these people shouldn't have that opposing idea. I mean if we all came from that collective consciousness, shouldn't everything fit perfectly together, like a puzzle? And we are merely diverted from the path we take by the ego mind, and that kills the utopia that the world actually is? That's a pretty radical idea. And it sounds so damn good Smile

Theoretically, that should be true. But there's no getting rid of the egomind for good, for better or worse. It's necessary for our survival.

But then again, IS there a utopia? What if this is what the world was meant to be--that the law of attraction is merely something that motivates yourself and only yourself, and cannot affect anything other than yourself? Like what Lee said about The Secret, that it is just like a self help vid. Like, the ego mind was created for a reason. So despite the utopia that the collective Intuitions of all the entities in the universe create, the ego mind exists as its opposite. There is that theory that nothing exists without an opposite. There is no happy without sad, there is no black without white. "Take the pain away from love and love won't exist." (lyrics to a song. kinda fitting.) So, there is no perfection without disorder. So, in essence, our world is perfect in the way that it is imperfect. The law of attraction is just a mindset that helps us get through life with that optimistic attitude, despite that it does not work on anything but ourselves. Someone said it before--we can't control the universe.

I agree. No happiness without sorrow. No security without fear. No love without hate. I completely support that belief. I'm pretty sure there's a name for it, just I don't know what is. xD

Andy. S wrote:I don't know, I sort of regret knowing about these things because I can never go back from where I was before. But I guess this is the price for knowledge.

I can't say the same for myself. I regret things I don't do, as opposed to things I've done. And there is indeed a heavy price that comes with some knowledge, if you can't handle it that is. Ignorance is bliss. Laughing

"What's done is done. Move on."

I'd like to be able to live by that statement, but there's no escaping the past. It might not haunt you, you might recall it actively or consciously, but the past has made its mark. Maybe not a permanent mark, but today will become the past as will next week, next month, and so on. The past accumulates, and as time goes by we make cover our old marks with new ones.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Kenny on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:21 pm

Vincent_Lee wrote:
I can't say the same for myself. I regret things I don't do, as opposed to things I've done. And there is indeed a heavy price that comes with some knowledge, if you can't handle it that is. Ignorance is bliss. Laughing

"What's done is done. Move on."

I'd like to be able to live by that statement, but there's no escaping the past. It might not haunt you, you might recall it actively or consciously, but the past has made its mark. Maybe not a permanent mark, but today will become the past as will next week, next month, and so on. The past accumulates, and as time goes by we make cover our old marks with new ones.

Amen to that. Some things I regret not doing come back to haunt me every now and then xD

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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  joyceychen on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:24 pm

havent gone through this thread's replies yet, but i can across something in my other forum that I found interesting. (many people in that forum were trying to convince me that the LoA does exist and that quantum physics proves it. but it seems to me tey say that it does start off as a change in mindset and then that change in manifested into the physical domain.)

anyhow. here's something a person posted:
No one can control the universe and make it do his/her bidding just with the power of their thoughts (from Ken)
This is true - no one can control - that's why they feel disapointed. Instead they need to let go...

It is with your feelings, what you vibrate - from within that creates. Your feelings are in direct corrolation with the thoughts you think.

What are you thinking that makes you feel that way....by changing your thoughts you change your feelings....it is the feeling that moves mountains....not the thought.

As we live in a vibrational Universe. The Universe does not correspond to your words, your thoughts, it corresponds to the feeling that flows from your Heart....the center of your Universe...where the most powerful energy flows thru...Love.

Quiet the mind - ....it is in silence that we attain all knowledge, all wisdom....feel the freedom of not being alone, but connected to All That IS.

Have your class observe their feelings - and be conscious of what they see...if they are true to themselves they will soon realize they actually create their own reality.

To be true to onself is very couragous - it is looking deep within you and seeing the dark and light of you....and accepting it unconditionnally.

Seeing the Divine in YOU.

One of your Transcendentalists mentions something to that effect - Emerson I believe....

LOA...is a field, an avenue...to raise your consciousness....helping you find out that YOU are a Divine Being capable of great Love or great Fear - you choose. (LOA is a Universal way / God's way..of showing YOU, making you see...how beautiful you are....a great gift, that creates miracles - I have enough proof of that in my own life)

Which World would you reather live in?
hm...so what about it? feelings, not thoughts, create reality, because you can think something, but not completely mean it. we could say a feeling is more...true? honest? an accurate portrayal of what you are like currently?
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Vincent_Lee on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:51 pm

The Law of Attraction doesn't change one's perception through merely thought. Our thoughts change our feelings, thus changing our perception. Feelings can be changed with thoughts. What the Secret advises us to do is start acting like we've already got what we want. Even though this will probably feel fake in the beginning, action does affect our attitude. Although everyone here knows the definition of attitude, I'll just throw in my Psych textbook's definition:"Attitudes are feelings, based on our beliefs, that predispose us to respond in a particular way to objects, people, and events."

By acting that we are happy and satisfied, by believing we are happy, we eventually do become happy. Andy should agree with me on this subject. Try smiling right now and see if you feel happier. Now frown, and see if your mood descends.

I'll just bring in an example from my Psych textbook, since it's more convincing than I am.

"Convincing people to act against their beliefs can affect their attitude. During the Korean War, many captured U.S. soldiers were imprisoned in war camps run by Chinese communists. Without using brutality, the captors secured the collaboration of hundreds of their prisoners in various activities. Some merely ran errands or accepted favors. Others made radio appeals and false confessions. Still others informed on fellow prisoners and divulged military information. When the war ended, 21 prisoners chose to stay with the communists. More returned home "brainwashed" - convinced that communism was a good thin for Asia."

On the other hand, I think that at times feelings can be strong enough to nullify thoughts. I don't have any "real" examples to draw on this time but haven't you noticed it's hard to think negative thoughts (and even if you do, they don't affect you as much as they would otherwise) when you're happy? I think this would vary from person to person, though I suppose that idea has some truth with everyone.

So to sum it up, I believe thoughts change reality by changing feelings.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  shawanne on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:18 pm

XD;.

...I'll just reply to...something else...for now o.o; -braindead-

I agree. No happiness without sorrow. No security without fear. No love without hate. I completely support that belief. I'm pretty sure there's a name for it, just I don't know what is. xD

...A universal balance? Very Happy Or 等價交換...whatever it's called in English xD [/FMA]

The Law of Attraction doesn't change one's perception through merely thought. Our thoughts change our feelings, thus changing our perception. Feelings can be changed with thoughts. What the Secret advises us to do is start acting like we've already got what we want. Even though this will probably feel fake in the beginning, action does affect our attitude. Although everyone here knows the definition of attitude, I'll just throw in my Psych textbook's definition:"Attitudes are feelings, based on our beliefs, that predispose us to respond in a particular way to objects, people, and events."

Mhmm. If one keeps on thinking negative thoughts one would just keep feeling depressed, same with if one just keeps banging his head on the wall and thinking he is worthless, etc., he /will/ in some way 'be' worthless 'cause that's what he feels. A healthy attitude is needed for a healthy, happy outlook on life, no matter what may come. Just because something negative comes along doesn't mean one needs to go along with it and be negative too; like Janie in the book, one can 'see' what one wants and pursue that dream, irregardless of what others think and thus kind of...balance out the negativeness? :O

...Well, something like that. o0;; -will edit later-


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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  joannneee on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:29 pm

I'm seeing a lot of creative language, but alas.

Going with Joyce's original question, I think the way I relate to the LoA when we first learned about it was awe. A lot of awe, actually. I tried changing the weather (by thinking about sunlight and pots of gold), and I like to think it actually worked, haha. The sun came out in the afternoon.

But then again, it was exhilarating to think that you could get whatever you want, but it was mostly a sentiment. It works like magic because ultimately the way you wish to view something and approach something may change the way you do things. Like many people before me have said, it may merely be changing one's perspective - from believing the self to be confident, and one will be.

Like the saying "confidence gives you beauty" I think the LoA works a little like this - by changing one's sentiments. In a way, is it oblivion? Or ignorance? Could this even be classified as ignorance? So the quote "ignorance is bliss" may be not only founded on the basis that the ignorant lead happier lives, it may also be quipped to say that those who really believe in having a support during hard times can construct their own ports in their own howling seas, if they held faith to something that they think can support them.

It's like healing from a cold. Sometimes when the doctor prescribes something to a patient that doesn't actually work, the patient heals because he or she believes that it is working. Your mind can overpower your body and its functions, to heal it. But the magical qualities of it - the sensation of wonder it brings - is definitely stronger than understanding the scientific theories of LoA, or so I would think.

And here's my thoughts! (:
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Kenny on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:37 pm

Okay, I'm cool now, and I feel kinda bad now for posting that, so I took it down, sorry everyone xD

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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Fermin Liu on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:40 pm

hm...so what about it? feelings, not thoughts, create reality, because you can think something, but not completely mean it. we could say a feeling is more...true? honest? an accurate portrayal of what you are like currently?

That's so true! For instance, a person may think that they want a car and have that thought continuously through out a week or so, but without truly connecting with the essence of the car he or she wants on the essence level (without truly feeling the car), that person will never manifest that dream. Like "The Secret" said, we have to feel the way we would feel if we had the object of our desire when wanting something, and we've to keep on projecting that feeling within ourselves.

When we believe in something, we get to a point where we stop thinking that the thing is true with our minds, we start feeling with intuition or have the gut feeling that the thing is beyond a doubt correct. Also, isn't it easier to trick your mind than your being or feelings? It's like how in movies, when a character has to sacrifice true love to save his or her family, he or she can tell him or herself that this is what he or she wants to do, but it will still be really painful to go against one's feelings like that. Sad

To give an easy example, I'm going to use our AP Biology tests. As Hannah knows, everytime before the test, I will say something like "I'm going to get 100% on this test!" Laughing Yet, I NEVER do. Why?? Because even though I think that and really want to force myself to believe that I can actually get 100%, I don't really feel that. Even with those positive thoughts, I still don't FEEL confident. Bottom line: You and your life becomes what you feel. One's emotions always affects the way one sees life and lives it. Very Happy

This has been a really weird post. Laughing I'll come back and edit it if anyone feels like it was incomplete or just plain confusing. Laughing Very Happy

Darn, I just saw what Lee said about thoughts changing reality by changing feelings which sort of makes sense but then can we always change our feelings based on our thoughts? Say I really want to forget about this person that I like, I can't just do that by thinking 'Okay, I'm going to move on...'.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  shawanne on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:49 pm

Darn, I just saw what Lee said about thoughts changing reality by changing feelings which sort of makes sense but then can we always change our feelings based on our thoughts? Say I really want to forget about this person that I like, I can't just do that by thinking 'Okay, I'm going to move on...'.

Well, at least it gives that person more of an incentive to move on, doesn't it? If like, one wants to forget another person, of course he's not going to have spontaneous memory loss; it takes time for everyone, but the attitude is what counts. If one is determined, one will have a better chance of succeeding than one who isn't motivated. So if that person is /really/ determined to move on, changing his feelings towards that person, etc., will help him.

Er. Yeah. o0;/XD
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  joyceychen on Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:51 am

thanks to everyone that's replied so far! i think for now, we're just seriousy clarifying the LoA, it seems. but remember, like what a few of you guys did, other than evoking "deeper" thoughts/conversations related to the theories introduced this unit, how else has these teachings impacted your life?

and now on to some more specific replies....

Phil: haha, yeah it's funny how you point out that religions (Christianity, Buddhism, etc) all seem to point at morals and what sets them apart are other "minor" details (like God and stuff)
here's something someone in one of my external forums posted:
Belief, religion, etc. is a tough topic to discuss and it's usually a no-win situation. I think as long as a belief follows the basic structure of human decency (such as be nice to one another, do not steal or kill others, etc); helps people learn morality and feel comfortable in such a chaotic world; and does not hurt or discriminate against others in any way, shape, or form (such as cults); then a belief structure is fine regardless of whether you're worshipping a carpenter who believes he's the son of god, a human with an elephant head, a group of crazy deities, or even a monkey that farts lollipops once you enter heaven/nirvana. Some people need faith. Some people do not. There are all sorts of weird things happeneing that prove/disprove all religions or non-believers. In the end, there's something out there that I think is beyond all human understanding.

haha but yeah, sometimes it's just so hard to remember how well off all of us are. we constantly hear how people say 'oh think of the children in Africa!' or something along those lines. but those arent in our heads 24/7, sadly enough. but yeah, being grateful does make you take a step back and reflect on how lucky you are and possibly let you have more energy to work at the hard task at hand just simply because you realize youre so lucky to even have this privilege.

Fermin: haha, so youre saying that once you realize how lucky you are, you wont be wanting materialistic things?

Annie: so youre suggesting that sometimes we might not actually know what we truly want (when wishes clash) but that the universe (central intelligence) does?
your entire post really reminds me of Christianity beliefs. as Christians, we are to be God's messengers to other people of the world, but He is doing all the work, he is using us to communicate with others, essentially, God is working through us. and the accepting what the outcome is, is exactly what it says. We dont know God's path for us but we should accept His plan, as He knows best.
sorry, I didnt really want to get into specific religion (how Transcendentalism/LoA/etc fit in with religion was actually another area I was really eager to explore, but I didnt want to bring religious views/controversies out on this table, so I decided to keep away from it. so I dont mean anything with this reply!)

Henning: right, I think I remember reading that too. sorry >.< so, LoA isnt to get get get (materials => happy. we all know how faulty that equation is) but rather developing a positive look at life and whatever side effects that come with it, whether it's attracting things you want, you'll still be able to reach that happiness, and a longer sustainable one too.
but it's really THAT simple? I seem to recall Ms. Kay saying for the Transcendentalists (or something else in this unit) how it's not just "be optimistic" and how there's more to that. but I can't recall what it is.

Lee and all those that agree that The Secret oversimplifies things, makes it too materialistic/physical: well Ms. Kay did say how the makers of The Secret had to sell this idea out to an audience that we have learned to be fairly materialistic. but look at us! critical thinkers, realizing the "holes" of The Secret and how in fact it really is. yay, go us Very Happy
how big of a hit has this knowledge been? it's been around since the Transcendentalists and to me at least, popped up with mass attention just more recently. why now? why not before?

Proey: oo, so this kinda goes back to Soph's thread of how do we know what it is that the egomind wants and what our being wants. if so, then as Annie puts it (I think), the universal being will "correct" us, at least our egominds and direct us towards the right direction.
oo, what you then go on to say is like what someone in another thread, i believe, said about comparison. but i forgot what xD

Like a Star @ heaven proey's post reminded me of a couple of things:
we seem to agree that we can't control the universe. on my external forum, i had people vehemently referring to Quantum Physics as scientific proof of the LoA, how our vibrations will attract like vibrations and that'll culminate in manifesting our desirable reality. and that this makes each of us God. so are we saying that though these processes might be real, it's not in the LoA? because then this WOULD make the LoA a law. Like a Star @ heaven

so far so good, you guys! will continue with the rest soon, but keep those thoughts flowing flower
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Fermin Liu on Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:23 pm

Fermin: haha, so youre saying that once you realize how lucky you are, you wont be wanting materialistic things?


Wow, I just realized how oversimplified and black-and-white my answer is. Thanks for helping me see that, Joyce! Smile I guess I should rephrase what I meant and mean then Very Happy :


When we realize how lucky we are, we will not have as many needs as we would if we were complaining about our lives all the time. We would be happy that we have the privilege to enjoy luxuries that kids living in poverty can only dream about. This will reduce our materialistic desires by a little bit. But like you said or someone said, we don't always think about the people who have less than we do unfortunately. For most of us, the grass is always much greener on the other side.

Yet, with the law of attraction, we learn to be grateful, happy, and when we feel as though we already have the thing we want in applying the law of attraction, we become even happier and enpowered. Happiness and other positive feelings and energies allow for more creative potential. This enpowering feeling of anything is possible works reciprocally with the feeling of happiness. When we are happy, we feel like we have the power to do the 'impossible', and when we do acknowledge such a 'miraculous' potential, we are happy because we know that we can solve any problem in the world.

Thus, with the law of attraction, we begin to realize that anything is possible as long as we believe. Very Happy And that will make us want less in the sense that we will cease to be greedy shopaholics who try to fulfill their happiness with materialistic things. Of course, we will still have materialistic needs with us being in our physical forms, but we will not want something just for the sake of having it so much anymore. Very Happy I think I cleared that up and I'm really happy that I had the chance to with you pointing out my generalization, Joyce. Smile Thanks! Very Happy
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Vincent_Lee on Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:38 pm

joannneee wrote:It's like healing from a cold. Sometimes when the doctor prescribes something to a patient that doesn't actually work, the patient heals because he or she believes that it is working. Your mind can overpower your body and its functions, to heal it.

Placebo effect.

Shawanne wrote:...A universal balance? Or 等價交換...whatever it's called in English xD [/FMA]

等價交換 should be equivalent exchange. It isn't balance as much as it is just that one can't exist without the other. It is a balance yes, but it doesn't have to be divided neatly 50/50.

Mhmm. If one keeps on thinking negative thoughts one would just keep feeling depressed, same with if one just keeps banging his head on the wall and thinking he is worthless, etc., he /will/ in some way 'be' worthless 'cause that's what he feels. A healthy attitude is needed for a healthy, happy outlook on life, no matter what may come. Just because something negative comes along doesn't mean one needs to go along with it and be negative too; like Janie in the book, one can 'see' what one wants and pursue that dream, irregardless of what others think and thus kind of...balance out the negativeness? :O

Balance would imply some of the positivity being taken away. What I'm thinking is that if you're feeling positive enough, the negativity can be completely blocked out. Maybe not completely, but it's blow will just "bounce" off one's "positive armor".

Fermin wrote:Darn, I just saw what Lee said about thoughts changing reality by changing feelings which sort of makes sense but then can we always change our feelings based on our thoughts? Say I really want to forget about this person that I like, I can't just do that by thinking 'Okay, I'm going to move on...'

Whether you can move on through that method really depends on the strength and presenceof the antagonizing stimulus and the feelings it produces and the neutralizing thoughts.

Let's say I'm aching over this girl who like, broke my heart or whatever. If I had to see this girl almost every other day (and assuming if the sight of her pains me even more) I probably would not be able to get over her (at least not anytime soon) even if I keep furiously telling myself that I need to move on, that she's not the one for me, and so on. On the other hand, if she isn't around often, it'll probably make the recovery process faster and easier. But then if I keep reminiscing and thinking of the happy times we had together and end up getting choked up over those memories, then probably not. I suppose though, if I just continue living my life like normal, then eventually I will be able to forget her. Well, maybe not her, but the pain I associate with her. Though perhaps if she returns and I see her again, that might just bring the emotions back out and I will be plunged into that vicious cycle again. Boo hoo.

Hrmm... That was a little more incoherent than usual. Maybe that was too vivid, too personal an example? Laughing

@ Joyce

I think my first post brings that idea up, that the makers of the Secret are essentially packaging and presenting the Law of Attraction in a way that the general public will eat up.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  joyceychen on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:30 pm

really quick response to Lee's reply above me, yes, I was referring to your first post. I've been spending SOOO much time on my outside forums that I was only able to get through some of the posts here, so that post was directed to earlier replies in this thread. sorry for any confusion

but i'm done looking through my external forums and am ready to start cracking on ours!

oh and to whoever that said this unit has been like life lessons, i COMPLETELY concur. i remember for our first english midterms, it had to do with synthesizing everything and finding an overall something that should appear. i think. anyhow, i ended up writing about how english class had become life lessons. and this is even more so once we hit the Transcendentalist unit. i, too, have felt lots of personal growth, though currently, it is mainly re-examining ideals in my life, now that i have been exposed to much more than I had before.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Annie Fu on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:59 pm

Sorry I've been so out of touch guys! I had a headache yesterday and couldn't stand staring at a computer screen for too long.

Okay so it seems like the problem with the LoA or the Secret is the way that it seems too simple and generalized, and with that I agree. It's what made me give up on it after a few months of learning it and trying it out - because I realized that there was someting wrong with this concept. But then again, it's the way that the Secret was presented that got us to this debate, isn't it? Just because the way the people presented the LoA wasn't very effective doens't mean that the essence is bad, right? I still believe the Secret exists, that it works, but that perhaps the way rhonda byrne chose to present it was not very effective. But then again, the book is shelved in the "self-help" section in bookstores, and maybe byrne had a different purpose behind presenting the secret this way. I dont know - maybe it's just another way to earn easy money (tho that sounds a bit cynical. or am i just naive? =\)

Joyce: I dont mean that the universe corrects you, or that you dont know what you want... perhaps you know the essence of what you want, but the way you think of it being manifested is different from how the universe manifests it?

I remember reading something from the MMS packet about synchrodestiny, that since everything is connected, there are no such thing as "coincidences". That would mean that whne you wished for something and you got it, it's not just a coincidence, and that you got that wish for a reason/purpose. that would mean that the universe does possess some form of intelligence.

I wouldn't say that the LoA allows you to control the universe... rather it allows you to function in a way that's more in harmony with the universe and its doings? And therefore its easier to manifest your wishes because you're already in tune with the universe and thus allow its "beams" to "shine through you" more easily?

About the thoughts changing reality - that reminds me of a conversation i had with a good friend recently. She said that she says self-degratory remarks as a form of protection - she says it herself so that other people say it wouldn't say it. However, a friend of hers once admonished her and said that "the more you say it, the more you'll believe it, and the more it'll be true." Thoughts changing reality? I think so. And the believing part is like what you guys have mentioned about feelings changing perspectives, and really, aren't perspectives the set of truths that a person perceives? It is so hard to communicate this type of power in one short simple sentence because like essence, it cant be done - there's too many different ways to describe it and each presents a different facet to the idea. So i guess openmindedness would really be needed in perceiving the LoA.
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