Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  joyceychen on Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:48 am

head's up: I am still going through all the posts, so i might be referring to one of your earlier posts. sorry for any inconvenience

Andy: what you describe as how all these teachings have done to your life, the price of knowledge (ignorance is bliss lol. oh, i just saw that Lee also mentioned it. haha, i'm typing all of this right after I read the individual posts, and i guess maybe altering them if i read that what i said will be repetitive.) reminds me of what one person in my external forum said when i asked them why people were skeptical about these ideals (and make excuses like 'it's too good to be true" and stuff. i wondered if it was lack of faith/trust. so that person said things that were exactly what Osho said in our Courage packets. how deep down inside we actually know of all this (kinda, or at least once we've been exposed to it to any degree) but because of what it entitles to us, the power and responsibility, we shy away from it all, are afraid to take courage to step out and no longer point fingers, whether it's at other people or at God.
now I'm sure you arent as "bad" as we always put these people, Andy, but that's just something someone brought up and I'd thought i'd like to share here. it may be overwhelming to your egomind?

as for your answer/question to proey, didnt Emerson say that the universal reliance is grounded upon the aboriginal self? so maybe what keeps the universe ticking are the living systems it created. it created it's own fuel? xD

Lee's reply to Andy's: living in the Now? still keep the past, but yeah, apparently we can move on.

Lee: (in regards to your post with the psych defs/examples): btw thanks for bringing those in. your example reminds me yet again of something someone in another forum said: "tell a lie often enough that it becomes the "truth"." in your case, it's a couple of individual's perception, but yeah, if a huge mass of people have that perception, this whole thing shifts. this is really interesting, though maybe more pertaining to pysch. ish.
so thoughts --> feelings --> reality?

Shawanne: yeahh, it's one thing to know something but another to accept it and let it control you.

Joanne: i dont know why, but your post reminds me of how much i hate it when people take things too superficially. like if they used the secret and it works (materialistically), they're like yay, it does work! but when it doesnt, theyre like wtheck, this is crap. they dont let it seep that there's more to it than just that. (applies for other things in life too) you just seriously want to slap them silly and wish they'd stop being so shallow. not saying that what youve experienced physically is in any way shallow. just i feel like for the secret/LoA to work in its fullness, it takes time to develop it all, though once that is all set up, material desires might happen almost instantly. though maybe you, joey, and the others here, have connected to being and that this is showing as these manifestations are occuring in ways that keep up believing.

Fermin: like i said earlier for my reply to joanne, it seems like LoA, as presented in The Secret and as Lee points out, is for materialistic things. but we all know SO much better. i honestly believe the LoA/The Secret is in fact the complete opposite - it is for the non-materialistic things, at least in the beginning. (refer to my reply to joey's). and what annie says. maybe byrne knew this was the best way to get this message out. but it could also go both ways, people like us find the true meaning of the message, or others walk away like you annie did but they just left it at that and maybe became cynical about it.
*nods* follow your heart or head? Janie chose her heart. from my personal experience, it is indeed so much harder to change your heart. you know it's illogical, i'm going to get hurt, or whatever, but you can't stop the feelings. my mom told me stories of her school friends and how one followed her heart but it wasnt a happily ever after because of financial reasons (illnesses, deaths, and whatnot). so to survive in THIS world we live in right now, we need to face our physical domain because we are entailed to some of its rules, which is it, heart or mind? nanny or janie?
as for your example, i know what you mean. we TOTALLY want that 100% but for some reason, we have a little doubt. and apparently that little monster of doubt can destroy it all Sad but if we're aware of this weakness, then we can change it! (as jess lao shi always tells bball girls)

shawanne/fermin's last point in that post: yeahh, i guess it has to do with how strong your will is, which then will be converted through your thoughts and feelings to manifest itself. but i totally agree with Lee's "personal" example. those are so hard to deal with!!!
(and yay for your clarification/generalization in the post after this one, fermin! it's always great to read/hear what you bring to the table Smile)

Annie: for your second part of post (first part is up there with fermin's), so we have our own desires but the universe has a plan too and so our desires actually follow the universe's? to me, that's like saying it's mapped out already, since everything happens for a reaons, you doing something triggers this reaction from the universe, and it was all planned out so that the reaction to that 1st reaction can be made. or is it you have several options, you can do this or that. this will lead to A while that will lead to B. then from there, you have more choices. but it's still all mapped out. just more freedom of choice this time, not as rigid.


yayyyy, finally done going through all the posts in this thread so far. so far i've just been replying to individuals, but hopefully soon we can start synthesizing what we've brought out here. what's the big picture?
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  proey on Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:08 pm

HI JOYCE I'M ON.

Anyways, what you said to Fermin in your last post--following heart or head. Well seriously speaking, will your heart lead you off the cliff of a mountain? I don't think so. I think the LoA serves to show you what your potential is, and what it leads to--things other than that, there are probably physical boundaries that one cannot pass. If all people are innately different, then everyone's LoA is different too. By following what your heart wants--if you are even able to interpret what it wants--then the LoA should work for you: it wouldn't work against one's Intuition. And I say if you are able to interpret because many people can't even reach their Intuition. But, if you follow what your head wants, there are possible limitations, even if what your head wants isn't necessarily bad.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  shawanne on Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:14 pm

Anyways, what you said to Fermin in your last post--following heart or head. Well seriously speaking, will your heart lead you off the cliff of a mountain? I don't think so. I think the LoA serves to show you what your potential is, and what it leads to--things other than that, there are probably physical boundaries that one cannot pass. If all people are innately different, then everyone's LoA is different too. By following what your heart wants--if you are even able to interpret what it wants--then the LoA should work for you: it wouldn't work against one's Intuition. And I say if you are able to interpret because many people can't even reach their Intuition. But, if you follow what your head wants, there are possible limitations, even if what your head wants isn't necessarily bad.

Does everything the heart wants necessarily turn out to be good, though? From what Joyce had said, sometimes crap happens when you follow your heart simply because it turns out that it's an...irrational idea, or something? [/doesn't know how to word it] Like what if one falls in love with this dude who's actually a piece of crap, but one can't help it and gets hurt in the end? Could intuition be wrong, or is this just another way of dealing with things--that one has to go through trial-and-error/learning from past experiences, etc., to get stronger? o_o Or maybe there's just a kind of...I dunno. Sometimes good things happen, sometimes not? x_0

...I hope that made sense. o0;
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  joannneee on Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:24 pm

Does everything the heart wants necessarily turn out to be good, though? From what Joyce had said, sometimes crap happens when you follow your heart simply because it turns out that it's an...irrational idea, or something? [/doesn't know how to word it] Like what if one falls in love with this dude who's actually a piece of crap, but one can't help it and gets hurt in the end? Could intuition be wrong, or is this just another way of dealing with things--that one has to go through trial-and-error/learning from past experiences, etc., to get stronger? o_o Or maybe there's just a kind of...I dunno. Sometimes good things happen, sometimes not? x_0

Interesting application, Shaw. Very Happy

But is the heart really wrong? Or does it seem wrong because every other person around you is using the ego-mind, while you are following your heart?

Is the guy really crap (ahem)? If we conclude that all essence is what makes people kind and compassionate, then its only logical that all their wrong doings are their ego-mind. But we can't blame everything on the ego-mind, so let's not got into whether or not something bad we do is always the result of the ego-mind, because that would be unworldly digress.

So, my thought is, have we lived too much with the ego-mind that we confuse what is heart, and what is ego-mind? How do we know if something is love, or if its infatuation? Is it mere obsession? Is obsession even love? (let's leave this to Fee, lol.)

The thing about the heart is that you mostly, if you actually fail, fail without regret. Most of the time. That is, if you have the heart to admit and understand that what you did was really the right thing. Then that is following your heart. At least that's what I think. xD

As for Joyce's reply, I get what you mean. It's sometimes infuriating when others don't appreciate something just because it's inconvenient for a moment, like a puppy that you say you love but can throw out into the street at its first mistake. But how do we stop ourselves from doing that? It's sometimes pretty hard.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Annie Fu on Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:22 pm

I agree, not everything that goes wrong should be blamed on the ego-mind... I mean it evolved for a reason right? and if natural selection does work then it must be beneficial to us to a certain degree. but then what else could be the cause of tragedies happening in life? or is it only a tragedy because that's what we perceive it to be? take the crap guy dumping a girl and the girl gets a broken-heart. The girl thinks her world is going to end - but that's a perception. What if it's only a hard lesson learned in life, and she should be able to walk away from it with a new understanding of herself, or of life? If the guy's left you, there's gotta be a reason - at least that's what i think - and instead of locking yourself out from life and dwelling in the tragedy and sadness of the past, why not learn something from it and move on? I know it's not always that easy, and i know how the feelings can't just go away when you tell them to.. but perhaps if one really tried, really wanted to get over it, and wished for it with all their heart, they'll start taking steps to help themselves divorce their misery. aren't misers people who CHOOSE to be miserable? don't ppl naturally love misery?

but that's a bit of a digression there. Hmm, what you (Joyce) said is interesting, but i'm unwilling to agree with that first summation, because then it suggests that everything's already mapped out, fate rules - it takes freewill out of the equation completely. and it goes back to that convo mike had w/ms kay - what if we only THINK we have freewill? Then again, isn't our perception what matters? I like the second idea better - that gives a bit more freedom, a bit more freewill. I do think freewill is important and existent - after all, the nonlocal domain is purely potential, right? so then this whole universe is just a mass of potential, meaning that anything can happen and the possibilities are endless.

what proey said - wishing with your heart... that would make sense, but only if you believe that ppl are innately good, in which case what their heart truly wishes would be something good too and would not be harmful to the rest of the world.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Gray on Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:14 am

Hello

Wonderful post Annie, As you said, if the Ego Mind is only negative, it would have been removed. However, we must think about how fast the society has changed. The Ego mind may have been useful when power was everything. During that age where strength and power was everything, we relied on our more Barbaric instincts from the Ego mind. Now that we live in a society, we rely more on how much effort we put into our studies and how much we know. The Ego mind there fore we need the disciplined of pen more than the insanity of the Ego Mind.

However, What is the difference between these two. So far I know there are three parts to each of our minds. Pen, the ego mind, and the observer. how do they connect and why do they connect. What makes them different and how do you know it.

Thank you

Bye bye
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  joyceychen on Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:52 pm

hm...i see the word perception pop up several times throughout these discussions. a lot of things do seem to be based on the way you look at something. so does this affect what happens to you next? will viewing things from a positive PoV trigger a different response than if viewed with a negative PoV? we can somewhat control what we think of a certain thing now, so will this affect things later? yeah, we've learned that having more positive feelings gives you more power to go out and do things, so would this be what the effect of the cause of being positive is?

those are great questions Gray but I think you would get a more focused discussion if you created another thread with those questions.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Vincent_Lee on Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:08 pm

Let's say a new student is transferring to our grade. If we are told that he is a bit of a strange person, antisocial and unfriendly (negative perception) we might make the mistake of viewing some fo his behaviors as his being antisocial and unfriendly or treat him as such. On the other hand, if we are told that he is a very friendly person, we might be willing to go and talk to him, and he may respond in a friendly manner. Oftentimes if we view someone is hostile and treat them as such, they will become hostile. On the other hand, if we treat someone nicely, they will probably reciprocate that friendliness. Perception doesn't change what will happen to us directly, but it does change how we deal with those things. If we are feeling positive and something bad happens, we might be hurt less. If we are feeling negative and something bad happens, we will probably take it harder.
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  Fermin Liu on Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:08 pm

hm...i see the word perception pop up several times throughout these discussions. a lot of things do seem to be based on the way you look at something. so does this affect what happens to you next? will viewing things from a positive PoV trigger a different response than if viewed with a negative PoV? we can somewhat control what we think of a certain thing now, so will this affect things later? yeah, we've learned that having more positive feelings gives you more power to go out and do things, so would this be what the effect of the cause of being positive is?

Hey Joyce! Very Happy

I think that it is not necessarily a cause and effect relationship, but just a difference in perception. Very Happy Like bad things happen to good people, bad things also happen to happy people--although that may not seem like the case. If we are happy now, we can still have bad things happen to us in the future ('bad things' are just part of nature). But, being happy when we are faced with an unfortunate event will give us more power because we feel like we are in control and that everything will be okay instead of feeling sad and powerless. Bad things are just what the mind perceives as bad, but as the saying goes, "when there's down, there's always up." So, maybe you just went through a 'bad' breakup, or you found our that you have a terminal illness, your happiness is still able to turn that 'bad' into 'good'. Smile

Therefore, maybe our state of mind does have an influence over what event out of the infinte possible events will happen to us next. I mean this in that being happy will affect how an event looks to us, that even though two people may be faced with the same bad news, the person with the happy attitude will be able to see the bright side of such a news, and thus, transform the 'bad' news into a good news. This will thus make it seem like the happy person also encounters good things while the sad person is always going through hell. Everything is ultimately just energy and potential, it is our mind that classifies them as good or bad. Very Happy

So maybe hell is just a state of mind, a perception? Laughing Smile Very Happy
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Re: Real-Life Application of Transcendentalism

Post  joyceychen on Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:47 am

oh that's a great example Lee!

so for Fermin's, by keeping your mind positive, you open yourself to more possibilities? yay Very Happy
Your add-in about Hell is interesting...

hahah, i know this mightve felt like a discussion of many mini discussions, but all of your replies have helped me with my own personal growth in understanding all these concepts just that much more (and hopefully it has helped you guys too!). no, i'm not endning this, because growth never ends, so whatever you guys have to add, even after my week as mod ends, please still feel free to continute to post any thoughts/comments/questions, just like Fermin did with his.
so thank you guys, keep the fire of curiosity burning! Very Happy
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