Reincarnation and what keeps us going

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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Vicky on Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:12 pm

Kurt Vonnegut called souls "undifferentiated whisps of nothingness."


Well, I must say that that I disagree with this quote. First of all, there wouldn’t be “souls” if they were undifferentiated. Yes, it is true that we are connected at a deeper level. But even in that deeper level, each individual has “bundles of energy” that create them – that is separate from other people. This energy is the frequency that we vibrate at – the waves that in turn determine what form we take, and what “uniqueness” we have. So, I believe that souls are differentiated because the energy that makes up different souls has different undulating variables. However, the soul may be undifferentiated in the sense that it contains all the truth because it is part of a Universal whole. What defines us most as individuals is perhaps the way we perceive the truth and the amount of truth we let in.

Does this mean that when we die, we become a part of other people, and when we reincarnate, what has become a part of other people from the deceased person returns to his reincarnated form?


Hmm..this is an interesting idea. Well, I think that when we die, we don’t reincarnate. Rather, the energies that made us up previously reincarnate. They go into different forms – other people or other objects. It is possible for some of the energies that congregated together before to “create” us to unite with each other again and create a new form. I actually don’t believe in the idea of reincarnation in the sense that we will return to Earth in the exact way we are right now. I believe there won’t be another William Shakespeare in the world, but that doesn’t mean that there won’t be a person who has similar talents as Shakespeare. That’s why we’re all unique – we’re all irreplaceable.
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Andy.S on Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:16 pm

Here's another quote from my forums: We're just temporarily encapsulated bits of "the all," if you will. I recently heard (in a movie?) someone describe it as a river which falls over a cliff into the river again below. Our physical life is like all the little drops making up the waterfall, but we come from and go back to just being river.
Kurt Vonnegut called souls "undifferentiated wisps of nothingness."
Do you believe in this? and please speak to the Kurt Vonnegut quote

Argh, my windows just closed and I lost my post...Anyways, did this Kurt Vonnegut says that our souls are water droplets that go on into a river? Does he mean by a new river trail or the same old river because that would drive the topic into "afterlife".
There have been a lot of near-death experience reports that claim the afterlife is a tunnel of light. This is questionable because there is a huge debate whether this NDE is reliable at all. Some believe it is the mind that is responsible for these startling near-death "images". Though I am neutral in this debate...I would agree about the reliability of these NDEs. How would Vonnegut know that souls are "undifferentiated wisps of nothingness?" We as students have always been absorbing information from new sources to learn. But like what Ms. Kay said, there are a lot of biases out there and we need to cross those out. Sorry Luoh, I'm not saying trying to say your quote-dude is bad or anything, but lets first discuss whether he is reliable or not.

If the "cube"(being humans, animals, etc.) becomes part of the water (the supreme being), and then the water evaporates, is this when we reincarnate? This idea speaks to the idea of limbo, where souls go to wait for judgement. What do you guys think about this?

This on the other hand is actually kind of cute. Animal cubes melting into water? Man...what a cruel Happy Tree Friends idea. Anyways, I don't really have a strong opinion on this matter, but wouldn’t life feel really sad if our whole lives were to await judgment? Is that the meaning of life because it sounds pretty similar to mine right now! xD
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Angela on Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:07 pm

I believe that souls are differentiated because the energy that makes up different souls has different undulating variables. However, the soul may be undifferentiated in the sense that it contains all the truth because it is part of a Universal whole.

I agree with what vick said. Even though we are all part of this “universal soup,” we still exist as separate entities and posses different souls that are unique and that are made up of different energy waves. Therefore, our souls- our Beings – are diffrentiated. Maybe concluding that the soul is undiffrentiated may be reaching a conclusion too quickly? I mean, there are different ways to look at it. It just depends on which way you approach and which perspective you come to end with. But, as individuals who exist as part of the Universal Being, we are all diffrentiated in that we all possess unlimited potential to create and to bring change. If our souls did not exist, would we still be here? Isnt the physical world a manifestation of our spirital and higher levels of existence? Therefore, shouldn’t the soul be whole-ness and one-ness instead of nothingness?

Does this mean that when we die, we become a part of other people, and when we reincarnate, what has become a part of other people from the deceased person returns to his reincarnated form?

Hm…intersting idea. Do we really become part of other people? Or is it simply a transformation of our energies into other forms? Very Happy
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Angel on Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:10 pm

Here's another quote from my forums: We're just temporarily encapsulated bits of "the all," if you will. I recently heard (in a movie?) someone describe it as a river which falls over a cliff into the river again below. Our physical life is like all the little drops making up the waterfall, but we come from and go back to just being river.
Kurt Vonnegut called souls "undifferentiated whisps of nothingness."
Do you believe in this? and please speak to the Kurt Vonnegut quote
The essences within us give rise to our individual potentials of unlimited possibilities, and it could also probably be true that our essences reincarnate along with our energies – in fact, I am starting to think that they are one and the same. Perhaps energy is the essence and the being, the one truth of the human body. And perhaps it is the soul too. These complex terms have lingered in my mind for a long time, and somehow I cannot label them with definite definitions. The little drops of water, I think, are particles of our bodies’ energies, which merge together to form the unified whole, which then falls into the river, the one source of life. Perhaps there are many sources of life – in different ages and eras – as there are many rivers of water.

I do think that our souls have half the possibility of belonging to nothingness (the other half is shared equally, I think, with the quality of identity and immortality, as mentioned in my earlier post), as Kurt Vonnegut described. But in my mind this sounds like the wearing out of energy, the gradual aging of energy. Energy cannot be destroyed or transformed, and therefore it cannot disappear: this is agreed upon. It cannot disappear from the face of humanity, and so it lingers. It lingers on forever, and so eternity is its identity. Whether our souls are “undifferentiated,” however, I do not know. I tend to think of every human soul as an individual and unique entity with characteristics of its own, even though it may originate from the same universal source as all the other souls do. To me, there are clearly lines of separation (though not always visible) between our souls and beings. Even though they may return, in the form of reincarnation, to nature, or visit the bodies of new and different people, I still think they are all perfectly unique.
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Hannah Park on Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:26 pm

Wait...what is the difference between soul and the being? According to this one dictionary, the soul is "the complex of human attributes that manifests as consciousness, thought, feeling, and will, regarded as distinct from the physical body." So... does the soul have a bit of the mind along with the essence? Well, from what I read, humans are composed of the mind, body and the soul/spirit, so the spirit and the mind is separate. However, Angel said the soul is different from the being...I'm confused. : (

Also, about ghosts... are they the reflection of the soul, or the being/mind or a particular event? Can ghosts actually have a "purpose" to haunt something/someone? And lastly, can ghosts be exorcised?
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Jason Jr. on Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:46 pm

Hey

Hannah I Think That as you said, we are made of the Body, the Mind , and the Soul is correct.

The being is different from the soul yet the same. the being could be called the Observer, the over Soul, and in religions it is known as God. The being is also the Collective unconscious that we all hear about way too often.

The mind can be said to be the Ego, and the Body is Just a container for the other two.

Hope this helps

Bye
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Fermin Liu on Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:31 pm

Here's another quote from my forums: We're just temporarily encapsulated bits of "the all," if you will. I recently heard (in a movie?) someone describe it as a river which falls over a cliff into the river again below. Our physical life is like all the little drops making up the waterfall, but we come from and go back to just being river.
Kurt Vonnegut called souls "undifferentiated whisps of nothingness."

I agree with the first quote about the river. So poetic! Very Happy In our physical bodies, we are encapsulated AND restricted, but if we think about the vast river that we are essentially a part of and return to that state by connecting with the nonlocal domain, then we will be free and infinitely powerful. Laughing Therefore, by our physical bodies dying and decaying, our energy that is 'trapped' inside is freed of the ego-mind and thus, it can connect and better be a part of the interconnectivity of the Universal Essence--go back to the river of infinity. Very Happy

However, what Kurt Vonnegut said is a little bit more indirect than the first quote. Yes, we are 'whisps' of something, and I do think that ultimately, our souls are 'undifferentiated', but I dont think we are part of 'nothingness'. Maybe we are all part of infinite nothingness Laughing , but I think what he meant by 'nothingness' is that there is no clear definition of we are all part of, and by calling it 'nothingness' is a way to give it infinite possibilites--a way to make it 'everything'. Vicky said that she disagreed with Vonnegut because if souls weren't differentiated then there wouldn't be souls, but I am not sure I completely agree with that.

If souls are the entities that remain even when the physical bodies have died, if they are the energy that is trapped in our physical bodies right now, then aren't souls our individual beings? And Being is always infinitely powerful--it is our connection to the Universal BEING, it is the Universal Being that with its infinite possibilities and everything happening at the same time manifests many individuals that then become perceived as separate physical bodies by the mind. Picture electricity, what am I saying? Laughing No one can picture electricity unless it is in a light bulb or lighting up a computer screen...and that is my point exactly! The Universal Essence can be described as electricity--something of various functions and possibilites, some of which we have yet discovered. Electricity is everywhere--the power to make something function is everywhere. But then human beings came along and trapped electricity in light bulbs (the physical body). And while some electricity give off different colors in their light bulbs and some electricity makes delicious food in the microwave, they are all the same essentially in terms of electricity. In the same way, the Universal Being is everywhere--it is in each one of us, it is in the trees, it is even in the word I am typing right now. Smile But trapped in the physical, perceiveable form, BEING then becomes 'each individual' being, with its unique functions and encasement. Yet, ultimately, the being that powers everything is all the same, just extensions of the UNIVERSAL BEING. Very Happy

Does this mean that when we die, we become a part of other people, and when we reincarnate, what has become a part of other people from the deceased person returns to his reincarnated form?

It seems like that superficiall, doesn't it? Laughing But it's rly much simpler and much more effortless. Even when our physical bodies are still alive, our being is always in constant contact with the being of others--constant energy exchang--whether we notice or not. Thus, alive or dead, my energy will always be part of your energy and vice versa. It's just that when we die, shedding off the physical restriction, our energy can connect better with essence and feel interconnectivity more directly without the ego-mind. Our energy has transformed from having to serve a body alongside of an enslaving mind to just being free and UNRESTRICTED--just being the Universal Being. Yet, when we reincarnate back into a physical form, the energy of the universe then has to once again maybe slow down in the case of reincarnating into a human being and sometimes overpowered by the mind. But reincarnating into something of nature like a drop of water or a leaf, then we can feel interconnectivity and essence more directly and perhaps even easier. So maybe this means that the being or energy has not had to transform as much from the pool of common essence into being someting of natural as it does when it forms a human being with a narrow mind nurtured by society. Very Happy

Lala! That was really fun! Especially doing it while watching Grey's Anatomy. It really helps with the thinking process because the show is so cute,sad, and funny all at the same time, which makes me calm and happy--thus allowing me to think. LaughingSmileVery Happy
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  kathy on Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:48 pm

Kurt Vonnegut called souls "undifferentiated whisps of nothingness."
Do you believe in this? and please speak to the Kurt Vonnegut quote

uh personally i dont agree with this quote at all or maybe im just htinking differently than this kurt dude. that quote has a really pessimisstic tone for some odd reason..its so..sad lol but maybe he didnt mean it in a sad way. anyways, i think as vicky said, undifferentiated is not a good word to describe our souls, because each of our souls are all unique through the individual essence that is held within our beings. maybe mr.Kurt (lol) means undifferentiated as in..because we are all part of a whole-a universal being. but still we are like each particle within that being so still, each of us are different. and "whisps of nothingness????" what is this part supposed to mean? does it mean that when our physical body dies, our soul and energy just goes awaay and disappears into nothingness? hmmm "nthingness" i think thats the part that makes this whole quote seem so pessimisstic. maybe nothingness means it goes back into that pool of energy that rosa was talking about.

and yeah luohhhhh i agree totally with your concept of the soul w/ reincarnation being like hte waterfalll -->each water drop goes into the waterfall and falls back into the big pool of water --> mixes in with the others --> forms new droplets and goes back as it evaporates into new people.
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Michael Chen on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:15 am

Well there definitely are energies. We are the embodiment of a form of energy to a certain level of existence. Reincarnation allows us to enter another body which makes me disagree with the concept. Energy and form creates life. Energy does not enter form or follow form since one is complementary to the other.The two create a subentity simultaneously, synchroniously. As for Kurt Vonnegut's quote, I think he is quite right although it would depend entirely on personal interpretation and I'm pretty sure everybody takes a different messgae form it no matter the scale. At the level of the soul, we are indeed undifferentiated and on the physical plane which is possibly an illusion, soul is nothing. The "nothing" of which i speak for, i mean unsubstantial but as with always, unsubstantial doesn;t equate to nonexistence right? The soul transcends all levels so its altogether in no level. As for the undiffernetiated soul concept, we can interpret it this way: all the social limits, physical limits, social characteristic, and other similar concepts don't apply to the osul. The soul is connected to the being, which therefore creates the oneness rendering all souls and subentities as one therefore undiffernetiated. This is how i interpreted teh quote, unless of course, Vonnegut could be extremely pessemistic and see the world as a locked physical plane where our wnadering minds create optimistic concepts such as soul, spirit, essence to gratify our inner emptiness. That could also be. Smile

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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  anita on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:22 am

Kurt Vonnegut called souls "undifferentiated whisps of nothingness."

Undifferentiated, as in by breaking it down, we are all composed of the same elements? Some people go through life trying to differentiate themselves from others. By differentiating ourselves, in extreme cases, isn’t this the source of discrimination such as racism and sexism? Although that is of the ego mind. Undifferentiated, as in deep down our human nature is the same? This leads me to wonder, does existence precede essence? An existentialism thought that also relates to reincarnation, in a way I guess. Wink "Wisp" huh. Small and thin. I don't think he's implying insignificance, but rather the unlimited potential as Fermin has mentioned. Maybe since soul is small and thin, that is the reason why when uncontrolled the ego mind can overpower it and become louder than the soul? As the energy flows through the constant pull of entropy, it approaches the expanded nothingness, unlimited potential? By nothingness, since we define things in relation to the things that we are familiar with in the world, he could mean that our souls could be anything. But yeah, speculating here Razz


If the "cube"(being humans, animals, etc.) becomes part of the water (the supreme being), and then the water evaporates, is this when we reincarnate? This idea speaks to the idea of limbo, where souls go to wait for judgement. What do you guys think about this?

Are you suggesting that the supreme being evaporates? Do you mean disappear or renew?


Last edited by anita on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Luoh on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:27 am

Just to make sure that everyone knows, Kurt Vonnegut's quote may have something to do with the time he was living in. He is the author of Slaughter House 5, so, maybe his quote has something to do with the time period?

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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Luoh on Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:39 pm

Fermin, i myself believe that when Kurt Vonnegut say, "nothingness", i think he is referring to the actual size of humans on this planet. I mean, in reality, we ARE just SMALL SPECKS in this world are we not?

Kathy: Happy B-day btw Very Happy Anyway, if we had read Slaughter House 5, Kurt Vonnegut is not a very pessimistic person, from what i have heard from the regulars class. He wrote a whole book on the war, i think.

Anita: Well, it is true that some people spend their lives trying to differentiate themselves from others, but we learned this year that no matter how much we make ourselves different from others, there is on thing that makes us all the same. That is death, as we learned in Thanatopsis.

Haha, this has nothing to do with the forum, but i thought it was a pretty funny quote Very Happy
The difference between an Evangelical and a Fundamentalist is whether he is angry or not.Very Happy

This quote came from Psychedelicgoddess Very Happy
"it is my belief that true immortality is nothing more than continuity of consciousness - we may buy different cars throughout life, choose different vehicles, but the driver of the vehicle remains the same, albeit a bit wiser about how they drive due to past experiences"

What does this mean to you?

"I don't believe our lives are solely 'personal' journeys', but rather they are experiences which contribute to our combined spiritual development."

Ok, this kinda goes with what we have been talking about. This quote says that our lives are not journeys, but experiences.
People have said that people reincarnate because they have something to finish in their lives, our that they did not do what they were supposed to do in their lives. However, according to this quote, couldn't reincarnation be seen as us (in this case humans), but also maybe animals, etc, happening when we have not finished our spiritual development, and that there is more development to do?

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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Hannah Park on Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:39 pm

Luoh wrote: I don't believe our lives are solely 'personal' journeys', but rather they are experiences which contribute to our combined spiritual development."
... according to this quote, couldn't reincarnation be seen as us (in this case humans), but also maybe animals, etc, happening when we have not finished our spiritual development, and that there is more development to do?

Well, that does make sense since in Buddhism, once you become a Buddha and is spritually enlightened, you don't reincarnate anymore anymore and go to...Buddhist heaven?? (something like that, I have no idea what it's called) The purpose of reincarnation seems to keep giving one new opportunities and choices in the hopes that you'll reach nirvana one day.

However, If a soul is kicked out this circle of death and rebirth, where does it belong? The soul has to reside somewhere, heaven I'm assuming, but then there has to be some kind of a cycle there too or heaven will be just...there, and not doing anything. Or does the soul after reaching nirvana still a part of the cycle on Earth, just in a different way. And if everything reaches nirvana, will there be nothing left on earth? (Because there can't be new souls; energy can't be produced)
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Fermin Liu on Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:46 pm

Hey! Very Happy

This is going to be a really fast and short post Laughing :

"I don't believe our lives are solely 'personal' journeys', but rather they are experiences which contribute to our combined spiritual development."

AGREE! Very Happy Journeys all have an end. Destinies all have a goal. Thus, these two words both imply boundaries and restrictions instead of infinity and endless possibilites. Like people believing in fate, people set out on a journey to find something or go somewhere. But once that 'something' has been acheived, the journey is over. In this way, our lives as energies of a energy soup of infinite potential can never end, and so, our lives are not simple journeys that have destinations. Our lives are experiences--experiences in which we do the 'impossible' and experiment with the infinte potential. Our lives are about living and feeling--connecting with essence and feeling interconnectivity--which thus means that our purpose (if we have one) is to expand the boundaries and break free from the chains of science and common day beliefs. We've infinite potential and so we should use it because not using it is being ignorant of interconnectivity and not living in the infinite possibilities of the NOW is not acknowledging our existence in the Common Essence. Very Happy
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Andy.S on Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:54 pm

"it is my belief that true immortality is nothing more than continuity of consciousness - we may buy different cars throughout life, choose different vehicles, but the driver of the vehicle remains the same, albeit a bit wiser about how they drive due to past experiences

If that is true, then souls must be "colorless" am I right? Every soul has nothing special or unigue because it is up to the experience that mold us into who we are...unless inherited factors come along. Speaking of souls, should we have a nature or nurture debate over this? I mean, do you think spirits already have some "nature"? Or does the soul have to have enivornmental conditioning?

However, If a soul is kicked out this circle of death and rebirth, where does it belong? The soul has to reside somewhere, heaven I'm assuming, but then there has to be some kind of a cycle there too or heaven will be just...there, and not doing anything. Or does the soul after reaching nirvana still a part of the cycle on Earth, just in a different way. And if everything reaches nirvana, will there be nothing left on earth? (Because there can't be new souls; energy can't be produced)

Yes, I agree that souls are still in the cycle of life. Souls can be everywhere and anywhere because it is connected to the Universal Being. It is my belief that they exist in different planes or dimensions...another layer of our time/place fabric. I suppose these dimensions are made of energy too, except in a different manifestation. Things always change...whether for better or worse.

Kind of reminds you everything about optimism dosen't it?
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  kathy on Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:26 pm

THANKS LUOH for the BIRTHDAY WISH geek

[quote]"it is my belief that true immortality is nothing more than continuity of consciousness - we may buy different cars throughout life, choose different vehicles, but the driver of the vehicle remains the same, albeit a bit wiser about how they drive due to past experiences"
[quote]

DUDE i like this quote :] its pretty much related to everything we've been talking about into one sentence which is why quotes are so much better cause they're like a quick summary. immortality is the continuity of consciouness if we just eliminate the physical barrier that causes our "death." this relates to your topic because you are talking about the energy and soul after we die along with reincarnation. This consciouness that makes OUR BEING and ENERGY AND ESSENCE immortal is literally freedom for our beings. hmm but if when our energy is set freee form our phsical limitations, why would the soul need to find another body to reincarnate into? why not just be at one with nature and reach its unlimited potentials finally without any boundaries?

I don't believe our lives are solely 'personal' journeys', but rather they are experiences which contribute to our combined spiritual development."
.. according to this quote, couldn't reincarnation be seen as us (in this case humans), but also maybe animals, etc, happening when we have not finished our spiritual development, and that there is more development to do?

hmm i think that there is always room for more development according to our UNLIMITED potential therefore able to do whatever we want as long as we act on it. but again, why reincarnate when the eenergy and soul is freeest when it is out of hte physical boundary?
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Angel on Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:19 pm

But once that 'something' has been acheived, the journey is over. In this way, our lives as energies of a energy soup of infinite potential can never end, and so, our lives are not simple journeys that have destinations. Our lives are experiences--experiences in which we do the 'impossible' and experiment with the infinte potential. Our lives are about living and feeling--connecting with essence and feeling interconnectivity--which thus means that our purpose (if we have one) is to expand the boundaries and break free from the chains of science and common day beliefs.
I like to think that there is an endless cycle for all elements of both the physical and spiritual realms of life, that there are never-ending circles of possibilities that are ultimately connected with the Supreme Being, the one origin from which all vitality springs. As Fermin mentioned in his post, our lives are experiences rather than journeys of significant accomplishment. But once we pass away, there is perhaps a chance that our energies, souls, or even beings are fleetingly “passed on” to the bodies of other individuals (a sight that I cannot begin to envision, but seems possible nevertheless). What, then, happens to the never-ending cycle and its universal source? Does the cycle “split ends” and deviate slightly and translate into a different form in every new start? Or is the cycle not penetrable by outer influences and changes? Just as life experiences change, it would sound quite logical if cycles were able to change, or to stray away from the “normal” path of the circle. If they do, then would it become more difficult for them to return to the “original source,” if they ever were to?
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Jason Jr. on Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:38 pm

Hello

There is no Cycle. Once your dead your dead. There will never be the same you, and there will never be someone that looks like you unless you have an identical twin.

This Journey this Cycle is nothing. If there is Reincarnation, why can't the majority of people remember their past. Is it because our Soul only lives in the now and doesn't want to carry the burden of the past, therefore it throws it away?

I wish that were the case, so what is the real reason why we forget our "Past"
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Luoh on Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:08 pm

Wow...its the last day already...

"everything is connected - we are all connected to each other and our vibrations affect those around us, like musical notes that all begin to harmonize to a single pitch"

Yay, going to bring in my musical background now Very Happy What do you guys think of this quote?

To: ANGEL: Well, i don't think the body actually splits ends, and starts a new cycle...It might return to it's younger state, but i don't think it starts over... Maybe it does... Lets see what everyone says too Very Happy

To: KATHY: Well, if it is unlimited potential, how do we "reach" it? Using the word limited would connotate the feeling that when we do something amazing, past our "physcal" potential, that there is something still more amazing that we can reach, does it not?

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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Steph C on Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:18 am

Wow this discussion has really exploded (in a good way) since I visited earlier in the week.

Here to make a quick comment on Luoh's quote, "Everything is connected - we are all connected to each other and our vibrations affect those around us, like musical notes that all begin to harmonize to a single pitch." If this were facebook and there were a like button, I'd press it. I think music is of the most natural connectors at the intrinsic level. These "vibrations" cannot be escaped by anyone, signifying our interconnectivity. We the particles of the universe, vibrating to the same harmony.

..Makes you feel insignificant and significant at the same time, sorta. One thing though- care to tie this back into reincarnation and what keeps us going?
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Fermin Liu on Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:23 am

"everything is connected - we are all connected to each other and our vibrations affect those around us, like musical notes that all begin to harmonize to a single pitch"

Oh my gosh, I forgot to post yesterday! affraid Well, I guess I'll just make up for it by being more ACTIVE today. Laughing

I really like this quote because it clearly describes the importance of every individual in this vast interconnectedness--how each person's vibrations can affect those around him or her, yet at the same time all our energies ultimately come together and harmonize to one entity. Thus, this quote is an accurate and poetic portrayal of the nonlocal domain and each individual being's place in the Universal Being. Very Happy

But how does this tie in to the discussion about reincarnation? I think that this quote both supports and disproves reincarnation at the same time. Smile Our vibrations are our energy that is within our physical forms during each incarnation. And when our physical bodies die, the energy transforms into a different form of energy--goes into nature (reincarnate) or into another animal which changes the frequency of the energy a bit to meet the needs of the tree or animal. So, if our energy affects those around us, then each reincarnation--with the ego-mind of the humans or the basic survival, instinctual needs of the animals--will alter the frequency of that energy a bit which in turn will affect the whole energy soup. That kind of agrees with the concept of reincarnation in that our energies change but we, as parts of the Common Essence, are still in harmony--because at the end of the day, the energy altered in frequency is still just a part of the infinite energy soup of pure potential; the altered energy is not being anything different from the infinite possibilities of frequencies that it has to choose from, yet it is not being anything less than that either. Smile

Yet, if one thinks about reincarnation in terms of how the energy is transformed rather than how we are physically transformed, then reincarnation doesn't really exist. Reincarnation is so part of life and so part of the infinite potential of life that it is not really anything spectacular--it is simply change, and life is full of changes. On dictionary.com, the definitions for reincarnation all have something to do with 'rebirth into a new body' or 'reappearance in another form, a new embodiment,' which makes reincarnation seem only physical. What about when our bodies die and the energy transforms into a part of nature? When the energy becomes a drop of water in a waterfall? Isn't that reincarnation? Our energy or essence has essentially transformed in frequencies to fit the new embodiment, but on the nonlocal domain, if we are all essentially ONE, then aren't we still the same? Haven't we just utilized our infinte potential and transformed but we're essentially the same pure energy on the nonlocal domain? Smile

Reincarnation in the essence form can simply mean a change in the frequency of the energy to match the new physical emobodiment. This seem like a new life, with a new identity and a lossof old memories, but that is not really the case. Our essence is not defined by our memories or our past; our essence simply IS. So maybe reincarnation as a physical rebirth and a chance to a new life is just something of the ego-mind--something the ego-mind cannot understand because it cannot understand interconnectivity and infinite potential. Very Happy I'm not saying that reincarnation--as a transformation of energy when its old cage has died--is not real because it is. Energy transforms all the time, that is one of its infinite potential, but ultimately, its identity remains the same. It is still part of the Universal being or the Collective Unconsciousness. Change in appearance or frequency is merely superficial--how can we truly change when we already have infinite potential? Very Happy
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Luoh on Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:45 am

haha yay.. Very Happy well, i put the music quote as a way to try to push people to see what i thought of the energy..guess no one saw it Very Happy.

This quote ties into the idea of reincarnation, because if we are all interconnected, and if our vibrations affect all around us, then when we die, our energy that is flowing out, would also have to affect people and things around us.

When we die, and reincarnate, we are not actually giving away energy, as i have kinda figured out through our discussion, but we are giving, AND receiving energy at the same time. We are giving some of the energy of our earlier forms to other people, other things, etc., but we are also receiving energy from the people who are connected to us, which is to say everyone Very Happy

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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Angel on Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:12 pm

On dictionary.com, the definitions for reincarnation all have something to do with 'rebirth into a new body' or 'reappearance in another form, a new embodiment,' which makes reincarnation seem only physical. What about when our bodies die and the energy transforms into a part of nature? When the energy becomes a drop of water in a waterfall? Isn't that reincarnation? Our energy or essence has essentially transformed in frequencies to fit the new embodiment, but on the nonlocal domain, if we are all essentially ONE, then aren't we still the same? Haven't we just utilized our infinte potential and transformed but we're essentially the same pure energy on the nonlocal domain?
I have actually thought about this too, and I must say that I completely support Fermin on this one. If we are all one, interconnected internally, and vibrate to the same frequencies, are our essences then not one, instead of at one, too? Where is the sense of individuality in this case? When we reincarnate, if ever we were to, many see it as the physical transfer of our energies/spirits into another form, but all of this is still on the physical level, on a bodily basis, just as Fermin described. I still think that there is a great cycle that bears the continuing path of life – meaning, perhaps the cycle doesn’t just go round and round, and everything returns to everything (yes, I am contradicting myself in my earlier posts now Smile ), but perhaps it is one road of interconnectivity that appears to be a cycle (or maybe is disguised as a cycle), when all forms and matter of energy return to their original starting point. But perhaps this isn’t a starting point. Since we are all spiritually linked to one another, so are our energies on a nonlocal dimension, and thus no return is required. The energies are, perhaps, at the starting point constantly, only transforming and transferring on the spot instead of transforming and transferring around in different areas. So maybe there is no cycle … well, I don’t know for sure.

As for the physical “belonging” of reincarnation – this makes me wonder about equality. And fate. I mean, it’s not fair if for one person his/her energy is transferred to the body of another human being, and for another person to have his/her energy passed into the body of a mosquito. The “transferring” of energy and its process seems unknown and undecided, so I tend to think that this transferring is actually, as Fermin said, a delivery into nature and our natural surroundings, instead of into physical bodies. Our energy can be carried on in the vast realm that is the world, and although it may be physical, it is not directly in contact with the physical, I think. Rather, it is around and about the physical.
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  anita on Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:29 pm

I mean, it’s not fair if for one person his/her energy is transferred to the body of another human being, and for another person to have his/her energy passed into the body of a mosquito.

I don’t think that’s necessarily unfair. When we reincarnate, are we necessary evolving from the less spiritual to the more spiritual? Can we really say that a mosquito is less important and fulfilled than a human?

"everything is connected - we are all connected to each other and our vibrations affect those around us, like musical notes that all begin to harmonize to a single pitch"

That’s a great synthesis! It acknowledges our individuality, just like how there are different music notes who appear at different times. But moreover, it emphasizes our interconnectivity as our vibrations WILL not only affect and be affected by our environment and the outside factors, but in addition influence one another and determine what the feeling the next note sends off. We are also coming together, helping and complementing each other, harmonizing into a single pitch, ultimately. We are at one, like Angel has stated. Rather than giving and receiving energy, I would like to phrase it as "the energy flows through us." We do not even have to try, the energy will automatically flow around. This is true even before reincarnation, in the context of spiritually and biologically (energy flows from the sun to the producers to the consumers to the decomposers). Someone had stated earlier than when we die, we break out from our physical barrier and framework, therefore the energy can flow even more freely.
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Re: Reincarnation and what keeps us going

Post  Hannah Park on Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:14 pm

anita wrote:I don’t think that’s necessarily unfair. When we reincarnate, are we necessary evolving from the less spiritual to the more spiritual? Can we really say that a mosquito is less important and fulfilled than a human?

Well, I guess living the life of a mosquito will have its ups and downs(if you think hard enough, though I would be the first ever acrophobic mosquito), but I would prefer not to die by getting electrocuted by those tennis-racket-looking-mosquito-killing thing or getting slammed into a wall. Very Happy It would be nice to be some kind of aquatic mammal though; it would be a nice change of scenery.

angel wrote:I still think that there is a great cycle that bears the continuing path of life – meaning, perhaps the cycle doesn’t just go round and round, and everything returns to everything...but perhaps it is one road of interconnectivity that appears to be a cycle (or maybe is disguised as a cycle), when all forms and matter of energy return to their original starting point. But perhaps this isn’t a starting point. Since we are all spiritually linked to one another, so are our energies on a nonlocal dimension, and thus no return is required. The energies are, perhaps, at the starting point constantly, only transforming and transferring on the spot instead of transforming and transferring around in different areas.

Do you mean that it is a circle in the way that it is transforming and transferring, yet not a circle because our energies are on the nonlocal demension and therefore no return to the begging (of a circle) is needed? Hmm.. maybe its a spiral, in the way that the transforming and transferring occurs in some sort of a pattern (birth-->life-->death-->??), but it is not exactily the same, therefore it can't be the same circle/cycle.
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