Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

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Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Fionaaa :) on Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:47 pm

Imagine yourself ten years into the future. You meet the man or woman of your dreams, atop an ancient castle in Europe or while speedboating in Hawaii. The chemistry between you two is fresh, intense, and undeniable. You two get married. You two on go on honeymoon to Tahiti. You two have two beautiful young children that bear your looks and personality. And then you approach mid-age and things become turbulent. You and your spouse frequently argue and bicker. But despite the bumps and the almost-divorces, you still come to the realization that you still and will continue loving him or her until death do us part.

Okay, greetings fellow almost-juniors,
We all know that one explanation for love, or rather lust, is nature's mechanism to sustain humanity. We are attracted to the opposite sex so that we can reproduce and our genes will live on. That is the physical aspect.

However, why do humans stay together and love each other for decades, perhaps even a century, after getting married? What is the point of marriage, anyway?
What nature needs is just the reproduction of humans, it doesn't need the marriage that connects two people for life. So what role does love play? What makes a person love another person for a lifetime? What keeps this love going?
When we first meet a potential partner, we are attracted by their looks. But what's important is the deeper connection between two humans. Perhaps after some interaction and hanging out, we become attracted to their personality. This is when the connection between two people's essences comes kicking in.
Is it the connection between the two peoples' essences that helps the two love each other for life? As with the above story, the arguments and turbulence that the couple encounters is most likely a byproduct of the ego-mind. So what makes them love each other all over again?
What is love? Is it just something that helps us sustain our genes or is it something that supports us in our search for the meaning of life?

The above questions may seem explicit and drifting on the surface, but since love if IS essence and a crucial part of life, be it a five thousands years ago, or today......perhaps all of this leads up to the question:
What role does essence play in the evolution of life?

Let me rephrase it: love (the physical aspect of it) is probably THE most significant player in the evolution of life, but with love also comes the deeper connection, or the essence. So what is this essence doing there in midst of the evolution of life? What is it's role?

On a side note: does the love that people experience during their lifetimes, if we reach the conclusion that it IS composed of essence, reach into the afterlife? Is the afterlife made up of essence, if there is one? Do our personalities survive into the afterlife?


websites:
1) http://www.essence-love.com/forum/index.php/topic,27.0.html
2) http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30256
3) http://www.experiencefestival.com/forum/discussions-polls/
4) http://www.powerfulintentions.org/forum/topics/what-is-love-1


Last edited by Fionaaa :) on Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:10 pm; edited 23 times in total
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HECK YEAH.

Post  rosAA on Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:55 pm

FIRST LADIES AND GENTS.
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Vicky on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:04 pm

FEE! Very Happy

Well, the thing is, I don’t think that love should merely be circumscribed within the boundaries of attraction between lovers. Love can also be applied to the emotion that we feel for our family and friends. But we should probably discuss this according to your terms. So. What is love then? I agree with you that it is the connection and, perhaps, exchange of essence between two people. However, in most cases, upon first acquaintance, people often have the image of “wanting” the other. However, I think most of the time, this feeling is not love – it is lust. It is the emotion that is felt by the ego mind. In my moderation, we talked about how the ego mind’s most fundamental function was to ensure the survival of an individual. Finding a mate and carrying on one’s genes seems to fit the ego mind’s criteria quite snugly. That is why it tends to create feelings of lust. The ego mind is also the reason why it takes a while for people to develop “spiritual relationships” – to get past the superficial attraction to others based on their countenance. This is when the exchange of essence comes in. And this is also where love between two individuals come in – when neither are focused on the other’s appearance.

So this leads to your second question: what keeps love going. I think that after two individuals are able to go beyond each other’s appearances, and understand the person, their ego minds won’t let its guard up so much. The two people become more comfortable with each other – which can stimulate the exchange of essence between them. By being able to connect with each other, the individuals are then able to love each other. That is what sustains a relationship. Yet, this relationship may be strained over time if they spend time away from each other, or just end up being so stressed out that the only words they utter to each other are “good morning” and “good night.” This long period of “no connection” may lead to the individuals’ ego minds letting their guards up again, and preventing the free flow of essences between them. This causes fights and arguments.

However, what does it take to get people to even open up their essences? To shut off the ego mind? How can we tone down the ego mind so that we are truly able to connect with one another? How can we ensure not to be bombarded by the “lusty” feelings of the ego mind? That seems like an awfully huge step to take.

Edit: ROSA!!! NO! D: I wanted to be first! Haha. Anyway, it seems like you're out of "phase 2" now, eh? Very Happy
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Angela on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:11 pm

Heyy Fee =)
Great topic. I shall try to respond to your questions…=P Cool

What nature needs is just the reproduction of humans, it doesn't need the marriage that connects two people for life. So what makes a person love another person for a lifetime? What keeps this love going?

Before you pointed out that nature just needs the reproduction of humans and not the everlasting love part, I have never noticed such thing. It is quite true, if you think on a biological basis =P Passing on our genes and creating a future generation is what contributes to success and….natural selection and evolution. What is it that sparks the love between two people and forms an invisible bond between them forever and ever? I think this does have to do with the essence between the people connecting. Perhaps the frequencies of the two people match or intermingle with just the perfect touch? Haha….In order for essence to conncect, two people have to open up to each other and allow for a bond to form. There must be a special feeling or a certain catalyse that will spark this invisible bond, because we certainly do not feel this way with every people we meet. That’d be pretty scary, eh?

What is love?
I love you

Such…a very gigantic quetsion, indeed! You mentioned that the arguments and turbulence that the couple encounters is most likely a byproduct of the ego-mind. Therefore, some couples split up due to this small clashes because they are not able to overcome the ego mind. Essence does kick in, in my opinion. If the interconnection of the Being was not there, then there wouldn’t be such a deep connection and everlasting love. It is due to this essence that forms between the two people that allow them to trascend the ego mind and to overcome it and to live an even better life after such clashes. That’s what I think =) Very Happy
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Philly_CS on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:33 pm

WHAT IS LOVE? Baby don't hurt me~ Don't hurt me~ No moar~

Been itching to do that for sometime now.

Now, responding to Vicky, I don't think the troubles in a marriage are sparked by a strained relationship. I think it's more like how people change. We as human beings change and develop, and for sure our value system and our mind will change. It is inevitable. You are simply not who you are ten years ago, and you certainly will not be yourself ten years from now. That is why it is so important to focus on the now. You will change, and that will change every decision you make. Even the seemingly most successful and perfect couples end up breaking up. Why is that? Because that person that sleeps on your bed everyday for ten years is certainly not the same as the person that said "I do" on that faithful wedding day. So, thus, we end up staying with a shadow of what we used to love.

So this is why it's so important to focus on the now. Because what he/she is before doesn't equate to what he/she is now. That romantic devil you loved will gradually change to something else as they grow older. I myself find long marriages to be a blessing and almost regard them as miracles, given the way people change...the way perspectives change! I mean, I thought Jason L. was a annoying fudge. In a matter of a few years, I've come to see him as a source of happiness and, well, funny things. Not that he quit his annoying antics, it's just that I don't mind as much anymore. Same thing with other people.

Now if it's the being with being connection, doesn't that mean that people will just stick with other people like magnets? That will completely overturn my entire discussion. I'm sorry, but even this 'I will only love you and no one else until the end of time' seems to be too idealistic, even for me. I'd like to have this kind of marriage, but I don't think love is just that simple. I accept the fact that I can change, and, now that I think about it, the long lasting marriages seem to be more from tolerance than from the 'feeling'.

Oh, just to throw it in for seasoning, there's this scientific report about love. They say that your mind releases this chemical that makes you feel good after you meet a girl you love. However, this chemical only lasts AT MOST three years. Three-de-freakin years. This shows that the marriages stretching beyond three years have something more than the physical aspect.

Blah, I think I ended up contradicting myself.

WHAT IS LOVE? Baby don't hurt me~ Don't hurt me~ No moar~



Last edited by Philly_CS on Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  joyceychen on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:26 pm

Fionaaa Smile wrote:
What is the point of marriage, anyway?
What nature needs is just the reproduction of humans, it doesn't need the marriage that connects two people for life.
not too sure how much of this I will be able to follow, but your questions are so interesting, fi! I recall an article I recently read, where couples have kids but arent married. What's the point of having that offical document that says you are "binded" to one person? Restrictionn (like for Janie) and ensuring that you stay true to the one that ruffled your essence?
If marriage doesnt help with our goal of reproduction, maybe it's a creation of the ego mind? just a wild speculation here.
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Joshua on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:36 pm

Hi Fiona!!

I happen to find this topic rather interesting:P yes, as Vicky said, there are many types of love, perhaps they are all the same in essence, but they are somewhat different types of love and what kind are you talking about here?

I think what keeps love going is composed of two parts. THe first is the constantly living in the present, where one feels the freshness of love every single moment differently, therefore over the years, the love does not diminish, rather they transform into different types of love and of different texture. This "love" might then be labeled differently, but, it is only a label. The second part is responsibility. The responsibility that one has on them keeps the love going, and it is the interdependence that give individuals responsibilities.

THis leads to what you have said earlier, and i think that love should not be mixed with the reproduction needs of human, because, surely one can love without having the reproductive restriction. One can love his/her friend or family but they do not need to reproduce.

WHat is love then? Well, I think love is only a label for a feeling, it is something that we feel deep from the essence, and yes, it could be covered up by our ego-mind, by our environment through supression, but it is most definately the most powerful drive for one to do anything. It gives people hope, happiness, and all the motivations required to do anything and even transcend the boundaries.

Essence is also only a label, through the evolution of life, essence is the binding force or the universal force that connects everything together, this is why we can ever be in harmony with the environment, and thus love, and respect all the parts of the world, because all parts of the universe contains essence and to some extent, i think alot of is not all of the essence is also LOve Razz
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  rosAA on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:39 pm

Fionaaa Smile wrote:However, why do humans stay together and love each other for decades, perhaps even a century, after getting married? What is the point of marriage, anyway?

So what makes a person love another person for a lifetime? What keeps this love going?

Is it the connection between the two peoples' essences that helps the two love each other for life? As with the above story, the arguments and turbulence that the couple encounters is most likely a byproduct of the ego-mind. So what makes them love each other all over again?

What IS love? Is it just something that helps us sustain our genes or is it something that supports us in our search for the meaning of life?


On a side note: does the love that people experience during their lifetimes, if we reach the conclusions that it IS composed of essence, reach into the afterlife? Is the afterlife made up of essence, if there is one? Do our personalities survive into the afterlife?


Okay. Sorry I just felt like the exclamation of being first just had to be stamped down. Considering the fact that I just ate a bar of chocolate... What a Face

Your questions here are really, really interesting. I now see why you asked me about the whole soulmate thinger today during activities.

In some aspects, you can view marriage as a way to "settle down." (Honestly speaking I can't wait until that happens. Proey and I were complaining about our lives during math and we agreed that we should fastfoward through time and reach the point when we get married to RICH guys and stay home as a housewife) I think that there is this human tendency to find somewhere you belong -- no matter a country or a family. So after we move out for the first time (ordinary circumstances), wouldn't we turn lonely and look for someone to settle down with and create a family that has a strong bond that will keep tight? Marriage isn't always the key to reproducing because if so, then why not get a hooker or something, you know?

And, even if you only know a person as an acquaintance, let's say you have to live with him for like 3 years alone in a house. Wouldn't there be a some sort of exchange that will go on that enables you to have a special connection with that person that is above your friendship with your best guy friend? (I'm desperately hoping you understand what I'm talking about) Let's take this situation where we analyze people's essence and beings. When we have this exchange by coming into such proximity with one another, wouldn't there be some sort of an understanding between the essence and the beings? Speaking of such an idea, here's a random question: Does the exchange/relationship between humans' essences and Beings have any difference depending on the physical distance with one another?

I think that love is the creation of special relationships between different people's essence that transcends all physical limits. In other words, the connection between the souls. The way how you tried to find a definition for love seems impossible because to me, love is like us trying to define mystery -- trying to explain it is only going to make it twist even more weirdly. Haha that makes me a hypocrite up there.

I don't think I touched on anything really special here...brain clogged up...will come back later!
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  stephsquared on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:42 pm

FEE! i knew you'd post a great question lol.
i'm already answering to a mod but i've decided to go on yours. who's not interested in the most powerful force in the world right?

so, What is Love? first i think everyone has experienced his or her own "moment" of love--in other words, they've experienced or been through a supposedly magical and indescribable split second of the most tight, heating, butterflies in the stomach, warm, soft, gental, impulsive/stimuli moment. (all of them combined is what love feels like in my definition) again. everyone has their own definitions of love.

Love between a couple after marriage-- hm... i think you're right. it could be their bond that they share--they have this interconnectedness between their hearts (essence) and they are their genuine self with each other. Like Emerson's "Friendship"--their eachother's true friend, and also they tough times, perhaps a by-product of the ego mind, could have brought them together even closer-- people may realize that fighting makes them unhappy and they want to return to that happy moment/ status of their lives, so they overcome obstacles, such as arguments and disagreements in order to reach that special tightness and intimate connection they had shared. That's why people say the "power" of love, we'll practically do anything for love. based on our own definitions.. that is.

SO how do we differenciate between love and infatuation?

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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  stephsquared on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:43 pm

oh btw, i mean how do you distinguish love and infatuations AT FIRST.. not through a long relationship.

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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  joannneee on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:46 pm

Hey Fee! Very Happy

My ideals of marriage have always been this, most of the time:

"A successful marriage comes from falling in love with the same person all over again, all the time."

So this involves accepting the changes the come from your partner, or rather, focusing on the good things that your partner has developed over the years. I think true love comes from a returned sentiment - it's in finding someone who can appreciate you. Like Janie finds Tea Cake, maybe we're all finding our Tea Cakes (or Janies, for the guys out there. Very Happy) Loving is easier when its reciprocated.

The thing is that feelings change all the time - one moment of passion may be one moment, but the thing about long, loving marriages is that the loving feeling is always there, even if there are points in your marriage that you just feel like the marriage isn't going to work. The people that stay in their marriages are more optimistic, and I would think unselfish - if one were selfish, then at the first point where the first turbulence occurs the person would be ditching their husband/wife and hightailing to find another person who would just coincide with their wants - at that moment.

Resentment of who your partner was and who he or she is today makes even the most successful relationships break apart. But if you really wanted to keep your husband/wife, would there not be adaption, and acceptance? Perseverance and not giving up on the partner and getting an divorce automatically is what makes things work, right?

As for the stereotypes that say love is like 小鹿亂撞 (I have no idea how to say that in English, lol!) is it true? Then what gives us that feeling? Is this only possible between a husband and a wife? Or also between friends? To what extent is Romantic love romantic love and platonic love platonic love?

Just a few questions I was wondering about. Very Happy

Phil: lol! to your examples!
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  JTizzel on Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:28 am

Hey Fiona,
Nice question there about love. As many others also mentioned, the first things that pop up into our mind after social conditioning when we hear about love is like a mom loving her offspring, or maybe more like a teenage football athelete going out with a varsity cheerleader. Yet, love is merely the feeling of connecting with anothers essence.

There are two easy explainations and examples of love:
The Love from parents for their offspring
Sex

Offspring, especially humans, have been nurtured inside the parent for nine or ten months before the offspring is independent as a human being physically. This is the process of passing down energy, passing down heredity, and most importantly passing down essence. A mother is has essence within her. Once the sperm and the egg meet to form a embryo, the embryo is one with the mother, thus, having one essence with the mother. THus, when offspring is independent, he or she has their parents essence within them. This is probably the reason of the bondage, the connection between parents and offspring. They share the same essence. Peices from the same puzzle fit easily with each other.

Sex also known as making love, is an intimate course of action resulting in the male and the female to become one. EVen though many times humans have sex merely for the pleasure they gain during the process, but evolutionary, sex is a course of action between two intimate people when in love. Notice the wording of sex to be Making LOVE not making LUST.

JTizzels Theory
There are three domains while there are three qualities of humans connecting with others. The three domains are physical, quantum, and spiritual. The three qualities of human connectivity are infatuation, lust, and love. I propose the theory of the physical resulting in infatuation, the ego quantum domain resulting in lust, and lastly the spiritual domain resulting in Love.
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  ivy on Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:01 pm

hiiiiii!
joannneee wrote:
So this involves accepting the changes the come from your partner, or rather, focusing on the good things that your partner has developed over the years. I think true love comes from a returned sentiment - it's in finding someone who can appreciate you. Like Janie finds Tea Cake, maybe we're all finding our Tea Cakes (or Janies, for the guys out there. Very Happy) Loving is easier when its reciprocated.

After reading with what Joanne has said, I think that love is easier when it is reciprocate, but love can become a burden. Some couples split up at the end because they love each other too much. it's the feeling of drowning in love, so when there is an overflow of love between two people, does it really make loving easier? I suppose not, but how can we find a balance between the overflow of love and a certain amount of love? It's good to have love and chemistry between the two, but how do we know if the love that we have for another is just too much? Yet, I digress already.

Here is what i think about what is love doing in the midst of our evolution. Love keeps us connected. Our love for a friend, a family member, or simply just another human being helps us form the bonding between our circle of friends. When we undergo an evolution, love keeps us tight together. Although there may be bumps on the road, but that is most likely because the passion is starting wane, for the reason that we seem to be unable to accept the change in our spouses. Well, love is unpredictable, so the only thing that we can do is discover something new about our husband/wife and learn to fall in love with him/her bit by bit, again and again Very Happy
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Vicky on Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:17 pm

I think it's more like how people change…So, thus, we end up staying with a shadow of what we used to love.


Well, yes, after reading your post I think I’ve revised my thinking on this subject a bit: the tarnished love between people who have been together for a long time can result from either stress or the change that people undergo. I still believe that the stress from each individual’s work or life can result in the strain in their relationship. Yes, people do change. But, isn’t it too “black and white” to say that people change significantly in the course of 10 years? So much so as to put great distance between them?

So call me a romantic or idealist or whatever, but I agree with Joanne: "A successful marriage comes from falling in love with the same person all over again, all the time." I think that a “true love” can only result from the genuine connection between two individuals. Therefore, if they understand each other, then shouldn’t they also be able to “comprehend” the changes that each other are going through and find the positives in the changes – or as how Joey put it, “to fall in love with the person repeatedly despite the changes?” I believe that people who really love each other, no matter if they’re under ordeals or having fights, that “sparkle of love” will never completely be gone. The individuals have a true connection and are able to find that connection back again even after periods of strain.


To what extent is Romantic love romantic love and platonic love platonic love?


Hmmm. Yeah, there seems to be a great distinction between romantic love and platonic love. The texture is somewhat different. Perhaps “romantic” is just a word that the ego mind applies to satisfy its vanity? I think that people who have a successful marriage, to some degree, do share somewhat “platonic” feelings with their significant others. This may be why they are more connected in a way? They know what the other is thinking (telepathy), or how they are feeling. On the essence level, I think that is where “platonic” love is exchanged.

For example, it is quite common for a girl and a boy to grow up together and to eventually develop deeper feelings for each other right? Yet, they almost always start out with a platonic love, which transforms into one of romance when they grow older. Why? I think that maybe after a while, the ego mind starts to remind the individual that their purpose on earth is to reproduce, and the only way the person can reproduce with the person that they share a platonic love with is to “show the world” that they are together by displaying “romantic love”? I think that a relationship based solely on romance cannot survive long because after the purpose of reproduction has been fulfilled, the ego mind will eventually get bored. And without any other feelings that keep the individual’s longing to stay connected with the other, the marriage usually ends up badly.
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Fionaaa :) on Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:20 pm

Hey ya'll,
muchos thanks and appreciation for posting Cool
I see some excellent yet provocative insight.

Therefore, I have quite a few things to say to each of you:

Vicky,
To your first post, good synthesis - "Finding a mate and carrying on one’s genes seems to fit the ego mind’s criteria quite snugly." I wouldn't have thought of that.
To your second paragraph though, what causes ego-minds to let up their guards? Why is it that when we become separated from a loved one, the ego-mind resurfaces? As the ego-mind let up their guards, they create fear, which creates unnecessary disputes and conflicts. However, what made the ego-mind come up in the first place? The absence of love when your loved one is away?
To your question of what it would take to get people to open up their essences, I guess when people have enough of lust, the essence comes in...I mean, no one can be truly happy with JUST their physical bodies content, right? Spirituality is what brings genuine happiness, right?

Angela,
Hi, do you mean the frequency of the energies of the two people? How does this energy connect the people though? Is it like the Law of Attraction - if your frequency is on, say, a positive frequency, it matches the frequency of "happy things" and they will occur? So the F of the first person matches the F of the second person, they attract. hmm.

Phil,
Yes people change I agree. But since everything is one, shouldn't their essence be the same? So why should the relationship break down if their essence does not change?
And what causes the change in people if everything is one?
Maybe it is just variations in essence. Beneath it all, everything is still the same - it is simply our perspective that changes. Therefore this is why it is so important to focus on the now, as you suggest!
Yes, as said before, the chemical is probably just nature's way of ensuring the survival of our genes. What i'm wondering though is, why are some couples still madly in love with each other even at ripe ol' ages such as 89 or 95?
btw, thanks for the vid Wink

Joyce,
hey! so if marriage is just a product of the ego-mind, what ROLE does it serve? Why did the ego-mind flippin create something for which we cannot find a purpose for? also just a speculation Smile

Joshua,
Heyy, now that I think of it, it would be better and easier to talk about love in general - be it family love, friendship love, or love love. However, if you think about it it is simple to find an explanation for family love or friendship love, so let\'s zoom in and focus on the last of the three loves. What I\'m confused about is the love between two, should I say, random human beings that induces them to get married and stay together for their lifetimes. Why??
To your 2nd paragraph: so once again, the POWER OF NOW is crucial and paramount in l-o-v-e.
Can you connect essence and living in the now? I'll attempt to answer that:
I find it interesting how you say that there are different types and textures of love that present themselves everyday, and it is this that causes couples to fall in love with each other all over again. So if love is consisted of essence, you\'re implying that there are different textures of essence. So in order to live life to the fullest, we have to embrace the different essence textures - which we accomplish by living in the present. Do you think that's a strong connection betw. essence and the Now?
to summarize: to live a fulfilling and happy life, we have to embrace different types of essence, which we can only do by living in the Now.

Ok, why would humans that are in love follow responsibilities though? Can you bear following responsibilities, which are rules, which are made up by the ego-mind, the rest of your life?
Ah, good hypothesis - that love is just another name for essence.

Ok so essence connected (and connects) everything together...which helped evolution in what way?

Rosa,
frankly, I can't imagine you as a housewife nor can I imagine you settling down. Considering someone with your character - one consisting of a strong personality - well...they\'re supposed to go out into the world advocating and making things possible. Unless you want to do that in the huge room of your mansion that your rich husband bought for you. lol =P

Ok so, what causes this human tendency to look for somewhere to belong? Is it intrinsic, or is it a product of the ego-mind? "Society expects me to marry and settle down. Everyone else is having kids, so I should too"
To answer your question: I don't think so, why else would twins living on opposites poles of the world feel a mutual intimate connection?
Also, what causes the strengthening of the connection of essence between two people? As in your roommate example, living together? What about the twins - perhaps being together in the womb for nine months?

Eph,
hey! "they are their genuine self with each other." This is a good idea, but why does this connection put them ABOVE the relationship of friends? Why lovers?
Haha, I see the concept of no pain no gain here. Without turbulence, couples can never appreciate what they had before, therefore the bond, or the connection of essence, is strengthened even more.
Perhaps infatuation is just associated with the physical? Have you ever heard of anyone becoming infatuated with someone who has a rocking personality but not-so-hot looks?
Oh I see what you mean. Well, it's impossible to tell - that is why we take risks with relationships. Because it might turn out to be something everlastingly beautiful. Or it might be brilliant but over in a heartbeat. Only time could tell.

Joanne,
Hii, why are the loving feelings always there? Essence, once again? What are they there for? Why did nature create this "loving feeling"?
So selflessness plays a big role in this. Getting rid of the the ramblings of the ego-mind results in the toning down of the selfishness that may result in a relationship. What would help silence the ego-mind?
Oh and you said "But if you really wanted to keep your husband/wife, would there not be adaption, and acceptance? Perseverance and not giving up on the partner and getting an divorce automatically is what makes things work, right?" BUT what if the two people were never meant for each other?
This brings up another question - how do you know when two people are meant to spend their lives together?


JTizzel,
Hi, your example coincides with my example about the twins that i mentioned somewhere above. I said that twins probably feel each other's essences through great distances because they are the pieces to the same puzzle - they were nurtured inside the same parent for nine months together.

Good observation - "Notice the wording of sex to be Making LOVE not making LUST."
So does our essence encourage us to...make love? since love is essence, as you're saying.
So (trying not to sound too absurd here) does making love......make essence as well?
Since it strengthens the bonds between the two humans.
Perhaps sex has evolved too - from a mechanism for bearing children to a mechanism for enhancing relationships and fortifying the connection of essence.
wow, completely radical and unprecedented idea! I'm sure you will have a lot to say about this. Go on, sharing is caring ;]

(btw why does the ego-mind result in infatuation, as stated in your theory?)

Ivy,
So can there ever be too much essence?
Nah, digressions are valuable. Okay, so I guess couples split up because their essences are not right for each other (but to think of it, how could it be when everything is ONE?) or because of too much love. Can you give an example of too much love?
Good insight - "When we undergo an evolution, love keeps us tight together.'' I like!

SO GALS AND GUYS,
No doubt this is a huge topic, but underneath all the different branches and streams, I'm sure there will be an overall underlying message. The same sort of pattern is emerging in the posts already. Keep up the brainwork! I'll let the discussion unfold by themselves, but let's try keeping it in the direction of "What role does love/essence play in the evolution of life?"


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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  hen on Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:38 pm

So seeing as no one has mentioned it yet, here's the other side to the discussion, which I always seem to be bringing up in every discussion.
Fiona wrote:
However, why do humans stay together and love each other for decades, perhaps even a century, after getting married? What is the point of marriage, anyway?
What nature needs is just the reproduction of humans, it doesn't need the marriage that connects two people for life
I say this from the perspective of the other side of this discussion, not necessarily what I truly believe in.

Nature does not actually need love. Since all we actually need is reproduction, love actually gets in the way. If we remain loyal to one mate, then our rate of reproduction will decrease sharply. Animals have a season for mating, where they find a mate and reproduce, and usually never see one another again.

This is probably why what we call "the flair" of love fades away usually after the first year. Maybe it is nature intention that we move on instead of settle down with a single person, for the sake of our survival. Marriage is no more than a ritual developed by humans, and all of its rules are set by ourselves. Nature had no direct hand in it.

This is also probably why lust, though temporary, tends to be stronger than love. Often times it is because of lust that we grow attracted to others at first, so from this perspective the key factor of our survival (in the reproductive sense) is actually more of lust than love (since real love normally takes time to surface).

Here's my actual view.
I partially agree with the aforementioned views of lust being more important in a basic survival sense. Yet humans, with all the recent technological developments, are no longer in need of rapid reproduction. We are a k-selected species with an especially long lifespan, so reproduction isn't much of an issue as of modern days (rather, our issue is overpopulation).

So lust is probably like the tailbone, a leftover of evolution. It is still there, even though we are not in great need of it. Love is of much greater importance nowadays, because having established a sizable population, the next step is the establishment of communication and unity of its members. This connection, quite possibly the strongest bond two beings can have, serves its role here.
Rosa wrote:
Does the exchange/relationship between humans' essences and Beings have any difference depending on the physical distance with one another?
Interesting topic. I remember lee told me one day (while waiting in a long line to buy lunch...) about what he learned in AP psych. He said something along these lines: "The greatest factor of determining our attraction for one another is proximity."
In other words, psychologically speaking, our physical distance between one another is the greatest deciding factor in how attracted we are to one another. This is likely why long-distance relationships, unless strong enough, do not last, and why things like a webcam are never the same as seeing the person face to face.


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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Angela on Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:44 pm

Fee wrote:
Hi, do you mean the frequency of the energies of the two people? How does this energy connect the people though? Is it like the Law of Attraction - if your frequency is on, say, a positive frequency, it matches the frequency of "happy things" and they will occur? So the F of the first person matches the F of the second person, they attract. hmm.

You know how different people seem give off a different feeling or frequencies? For example, a person who is warm and kind will give off a positive and warm frequency around people, allowing people to want to talk to them and be friends with them. Whereas some other people may give off a “colder” frequency which does not give off the warm “rays” that the first person gives off. I think this is kind of an essence-filled feeling. People become friends because their frequencies are more….similar? And the feeling is just more….comfortable and suitable? You know that feeling, right? So its not so much as the Law of Attraction. Its just an unexplainable feeling that two people feel when they are together. Hey, we’re talking about love here =P And it definitely cannot be explained in words. Very Happy
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Fionaaa :) on Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:46 pm

What about "opposites attract"? Wink
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Kenny on Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:51 pm

If you're speaking about evolution in the sense of natural selection, then it's not love that powers it, it's sex drive, the urge to mate, etc. The need to reproduce is what contributes to reproduction and through that, recombination of genes and thus evolution. That's pretty much how all animals contribute to the evolution of their species, and should be the same for humans as well, even with our superior consciousness. Love is kinda just like an added bonus in addition to the increase in survivability you create.

Personally, I believe that true love for one thing is fleeting and ever changing, you as a person will always be changing, your likes and dislikes will always be changing, what you love will always change.

Oh but, here's something I think about sometimes, i don't really think of it of much more than an entertaining thought, could be something useful:

No matter how much you love a there are still some things you will dislike about them, as your partner changes, and what you love changes, those dislikes and likes will either increase or decrease. More often than not, the increase of dislikes occurs more often than the increase of likes, and by a substantial amount too, that could explain the few couples out there who enjoy a strong. And in those times where the dislikes start to outweigh the likes, people may lose their love completely for their partner, however that doesn't mean they'll immediately let go yet, they might still be in love with the memory of the person that used to be or they might be in love with what they hope that person will be and thus be unwilling to call it quits, they might continue to stay with their partner with the hope that some change may occur and turn their partner into that which they can love once again. And perhaps those people who do have a love that lasts throughout their lives are the ones that were lucky enough for this patience in tolerance to pay off.

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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Kenny on Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:54 pm

Fionaaa Smile wrote:What about "opposites attract"? Wink

That's true, but only for awhile. The initial attraction felt is because both people are getting in touch with something completely different from what they normally know/feel/see. Eventually, the conflicting personalities will cause enough trouble that both will split. Opposing personalities will not balance each other out, it's like trying to mix oil and water, you can't.

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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Emily Y on Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:55 pm

hey fee~
hm...I'm a little behind here..well I think the fact that the bickering couple stay together just proves that essence is the more powerful than the ego-mind. I don't think love can be defined really...it is a feeling perhaps? but not only? who knows if it is from the essence or ego-mind. I mean some super fans of movie stars "love" the actor but they don't even know him! so...love isn't just essence connecting...that's the good result of essence meeting. can one really say that hate is from the ego-mind and that love is from the essence?
about evolution, I think evolution is a result of essence changing to fit the needs of its...person. like spiral dynamics right? is it just our ego-mind advancing forward? probably not. I'll get back...
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Vicky on Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:58 pm

Hi Fee!

What causes ego-minds to let up their guards? Why is it that when we become separated from a loved one, the ego-mind resurfaces? As the ego-mind let up their guards, they create fear, which creates unnecessary disputes and conflicts. However, what made the ego-mind come up in the first place? The absence of love when your loved one is away?


I think that ego minds let up their guards when there is a sense of unfamiliarity. For example, when we encounter new people, we don’t know how to decipher them. That is when the ego mind comes in – to try to “protect us” from getting hurt by that “unclassified person.” It does so by many ways. It might try to categorize the individual by predisposed stereotypes, or it might stimulate the individual to “act tough and look mean.” However, when we let ourselves go and actually talk to that person, we then realize that the person may or may not be the way we thought they’d be. Yeah. But basically, the ego mind lets its guard up to ensure “social survival.” Perhaps it doesn’t want the new person or the people that it knows to think that it is a loser? In other words, it wants to prevent the host from committing “social suicide."

As for your second question, I think that after we’ve been separated from a loved one for a while, the ego mind starts to become paranoid again. It starts going into survival mode, thinking: what if my loved one is purposely avoiding me? Did I do something wrong? OMG! Is it because I secretly ate that super expensive chocolate that he brought back from France? Oh, I bet it is! But, that’s not MY fault, is it? It’s his fault for leaving it out on the desk and tempting me. …Haha. Well you get what I mean right? So naturally, when the individual is bombarded with such fears, when time comes that they do reunite with their loved ones, they surrender their power to the ego mind to do all the “judgment.” And the ego mind just ends up doing what it does best – blocking people out and becoming too self-absorbed. I think that the ego mind became dominant when your loved one was away and something from your external environment reminded you of him being away? For example, a commercial telling you to buy a certain product to look beautiful so your husband will love you forever. This causes the ego mind to go NUTS and BANANAS and starts having all these frivolous (to other people) speculations that the loved one doesn’t really love the person that much anymore?
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  anita on Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:45 pm

I'll jump in:P
I mean some super fans of movie stars "love" the actor but they don't even know him!

Is that love, really? Or obsession?

What about "opposites attract"?

In the beginning opposites may attract due to the diversity of differences. What they’re contacting with is, like what Kenny mentioned, new and not usually something that they’re familiar with. They think, Wow, I've never thought of that issue like that before. How can someone be like that?! The other person has traits that the person doesn’t. Thus, the person might find this exciting, eager to find out more and explore this unknown and mysteriousness. So they enjoy this freshness, and their passion and curiosity lures them to the other person more. Therefore, the relationship will have the advantage of having perhaps more communication, since both of them are trying to open their door and show their other half THEIR perspective, their half of the world. Later on, being opposites will tend to create more conflict than those who are similar. Usually in marriages, people marry those who share their similarities in personality, values, etc. However, I don’t think the conflicting personalities will always eventually led both to split. I guess it takes both sides’ understanding, tolerance, and trust. If both sides really love each other and are determined to make the relationship work, then they can communicate and work out compromises, reach the “middle ground” in which both sides can agree with. Adding onto Rosa’s question about physical distance, if there is a reciprocal reaction (reaction happening in both ways), the couple may even overcome time and space?

Some people say love is like picking stones, people are always looking for that one that is suitable for themselves. But when do you know you will find the stone? Is it even possible to find such a perfect stone? Even if she is suitable for you, are you necessarily what she is looking for? Maybe, love is like rubbing stones. When you first obtain one that seems suitable for you, you get this sugar rush and do whatever you can to cherish and protect the stone. However, as you spend more time with the stone, you start to realize the flaws of the stone, complaining how the texture of the stone is not soft enough or the color of the stone is too uneven. You begin to not be so content with the stone that you have. But as long as you have the heart and the courage to, instead of searching everywhere for that seemingly perfect stone, why don’t you try to rub your stone to make it shiny, to become how you want it to be? Make the effort to communicate, change, and work out and even embrace those differences in your relationship.
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Joshua on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:07 pm

Hey,

I think that the essence is very closely related to living in the now, because the Now/present since to live in the present is to be connected with the essence, and to let go of the past and the egomind's patterns but to take everything in as new, and present. THis requires the essence in us, and of course, love. THis is why people say that love needs constant caring and when one is in love (including all sorts of love) they feel new, becuase it is something new everymoment. Relying on the past and the memories are not in love, to connect with the essence in the present, one surely feels love.

Yes, that is exactly wat i mean, thanks fiona for putting it together about the different textures of love and essence Smile, since essence is always in the present, they will constantly morph into different textures, and through out live, one embraces all sorts of different textures of the essence or love since different connections have different textures.

Love comes with responsibility, and for love, one will surely take on the responsibilities. Sometimes it is a struggle between responsibilities and the love it is much like the struggle between the overdrive of egomind and the essence. Therefore, because of love, i think people will take up responsibilities for love. Since love is such a strong energy, it contains weight and responsibilites.
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Emily Y on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:12 pm

love and lust don't come hand in hand. if one "loves" for lust - "loves" the other person because he or she wants to sleep with them - how can that be true love? and people who love eachother do NOT need to have sex!! love can exist in so many forms! love for family and for friends has NOTHING to do with the evolution or reproduction stuff. AND the belief that "if you love me you will have sex with me" in a girlfriend-boyfriend relationship is NOT love. it is a way to put pressure on the other partner who DOES love their partner to fulfill their lustful desires...haha I believe I have just offered very valuable information and advice XD
hm...does essence help you survive? if essence is not the mechanism for survival, then it is not connected with the need to reproduce to survive...but essence has helped evolution in its own way...perhaps through the expression of feelings, like art? I mean art existed all along, when Neanderthals were drawing on the walls to tell stories. But our way of expressing the same thing evolved right? We have more "advanced" music, dance, art, etc. than before. Maybe the evolution of essence is separate from the evolution of...the body...it comes as a result? Like because we have become smarter and more efficient we have time to spend on developing the arts and going on spiritual journeys that evolve our way of EXPRESSING the essence - not necessarily the essence itself. Does that make sense?
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