Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Joshua on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:19 pm

I just read Anita's comment, and i think that it is particularly true that people often complain about the faulty on the stones rather than making the effort to make the stone better, and afterall, connected to my point of view, one has to live in the present. THe texture of the stone is no longer the same, but the observer is no longer the same either, one has to live in the present and take things in at the present not always in the past and looking for values of the past.
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Emily Y on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:31 pm

anita: isn't obssession a kind of "love?" see? this is my point! there is no DEFINITION of love saying obssession is not love. isn't that what we're trying to find? what love is? or that was one of fiona's side questions. so what i'm trying to say is that not all love is love, that "love" now covers FAR too broad an area. so we need to re-evaluate what we think love is. is it only related to essence or can it be mind as well? if obssession is from the mind of course - which it probably is...
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Fionaaa :) on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:37 pm

Quick Reminder to All: we are not discussing family or friendship love, for these two categories are although not simple, still easier to find an explanation for than the love we're talking about here. Thank you for your cooperation Smile


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To those talking about obsession, here's my POV:
Obsession is something that occurs because of the mind trying to get as much of something as possible.
I believe that when one is obsessed, the essence is not concerned. It is merely the ego-mind.


Josh, yes indeed, if everyone lived in the Now, there would be no complaining, for they cannot compare things in the present to things in the past.

Vicky, thanks for refreshing my memory about the ego-mind and its fear of change. I understand why it lets up its guard now.

Emily, Hi, you said "I think evolution is a result of essence changing to fit the needs of its...person" Can you please provide an example? How can essence change? Isn't essence the power running through all of life, it is the core of life. It connect everything into one. How does it change? Smile

Anita,
exactly what I was thinking, how do you know if a person is the ONE for you?
I think I mentioned this before: what if two people were never meant for each other?
how do you know when two people are meant to spend their lives together?
I love how you say this - "But as long as you have the heart and the courage to, instead of searching everywhere for that seemingly perfect stone, why don’t you try to rub your stone to make it shiny, to become how you want it to be? Make the effort to communicate, change, and work out and even embrace those differences in your relationship." terrific analogy.
What you are detailing is to dig under the ego-mind created complaints and find the essence. Rubbing the stone to make it shiny is like eradicating the dirt from the ego-mind. :]

Everyone, let's try to add this question in: Do you guys think love is actually necessary for humanity? Because won't we continue existing without love?


Last edited by Fionaaa :) on Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:54 pm; edited 7 times in total
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  joannneee on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:38 pm

How do you know when two people are meant to spend their lives together?

I'll answer the text in bold first - things are starting to get blurry on the screen. xD

First of all, this would probably lead into the "do we all have soulmates?" discussion from Rosa's previous thread, so let's not get into that first, lol.

Personally I think the person we are to spend our lives with may not always be the person we most expect it to be - but that's part of why people can live fulfilling lives - because everything is so diverse, people are so diverse.

I think everyone retains the ability to love everyone else (call me cheesy,) even if they face difficulties in communication or even values and cultures. As many of us have said, Essence is what makes people attracted to each other, and stripped of our skin, our values, and our cultural conditionings, we are all human, to the core. So love - is it merely restricted to "who you are to spend the rest of your life with?" Maybe we're destined to love different people, at different times; maybe some people are destined to love one person for the rest of their lives, if they want to, and wish to. Our personalities may decide how we love, an adventurous person may like to try out different loves, a person who can love for a long time may choose a partner that will return the affection.

I read a Reader's Digest article a few days back (in the May, April, or March edition, I forgot,) and it wrote about people being attracted to different types of people - the adventurous to the adventurous, the people who seek stability to the people that are alike them. However, the compassionate, willing type is often more attracted to the dominating, decisive type, and vice versa.

I believe we can love more than one person - but how deep can love get? We can feel the differences in levels of love, but it fluctuates. How is the depth decided?
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  soph on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:49 pm

FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ^^

hmm... such juicy topic Shocked

I agree with what rosa said earlier yesterday, about the tendency of human nature to want to settle down because in a sense, that offers our beings some sort of comfort and security, which we all love. We will try to hang onto that sense of security even when the love diminishes or the passion for one another reduces. Just so that we dont have to change our current way of life, because people dont like change right?

I think love is like when the frequencies of two people tuned together. There is that sense of connection on this deep deep level within the being that we may not understand because it is unknown and mysterious right? It is where the soul finds another soul and is able to communicate with it at the essence level, which goes way beyond what speech and physical contact offers. This is different from lust because lust, to me, is more based on the impulsive and ego mind emotions when it sees another being and is attracted to him/her. Maybe because of their oh-so-hot body or their shuai faces... you get me right? It is outwardly and does not see to the insides and the inner being/essence of the other person. Through interaction and communication, two individual's beings become closer to the other, and can therefore sense the personality/inner being/essence. And if the essences decide that they like and fit with each other, the fireworks and chemistry will bloom and there is no stopping that when it comes to that.

Marriage i suppose is another reinforcement in the ego mind/society of that sense of security and bond between two people. To me, i think it is a physically, tangible demonstration or display of the love between two people because it can not be simply explained in words nor seen by others. In a way, marriage declares, by law, to the rest of the world that this guy/girl is mine and no one elses to take because we love one another. However, i also agree with phil in that people change, perspectives change and we cannot remain exactly the same tomorrow as we are today. And this contributes to the causes for broken marriages and relationships because we simply want to cling onto the "perfect moments" and to stay in that fantasy instead of living in the reality and adapting to the changes in life. The fantasy that we would all like to live in is why we are often disappointed when our partner does something that we do not like or does not comply with what we want. Because we are expecting them to be something they are not/ or something they were but is no longer that. (you understand what im trying to say right?)

I think since the essence connects people together and bring them as one in the name of love, could it be that evolution, the carrying on of our species and genes, is in human nature. Just as animals carry on their species seemingly without reason, and we are animals, so does it make sense that we just do that naturally? Or is there another reason behind it... but then love doesnt need reasons does it? alien

I think love and lust is like the difference between the desires of the ego mind and the true wants of the inner being. There is a line of division and clearly one is from the ego mind and one is the result of the deeper connection on the essence level. But then again, lust can also be seen as the need for domination. When you lust after a person/thing, you want to OWN it right? You love to have the feeling that IT IS YOURS AND YOURS ONLY! Isnt that domination and ownership? I dont think that is love because with love, it is a connection of the soul umlimited by distance or time, therefore there would be no need to feel liek you own something because the deeper connection already have you bound together whether you choose to or not. if that makes sense.

Obsession is like a form of lust. It wants to have and own and get more. The ego mind makes you want more and more of that person/thing you are obsessing/lusting over. It doesnt know when to stop and therefore it can be scary when someone become overly obsessed with someone else. They may commit to doing irrational and maybe even harmful things to the other person in order to give themselves and their ego minds the comfort and security of knowing that they own the person they are obsessing over. (This may explain why there are scary abusive stores in the society today... affraid )

yea... sunny

"How do you know when two people are meant to spend their lives together?
I think the essence and inner being will guide you and tell you when the time is right or when the connection is solid and strong enough. It is like when do we know when a fruit will ripen on the tree? We do not. But nature itself and the tree will know so that the fruit will drop from the tree and detach from it when it cannot become any more ripe. (ok i think that was a bad example =.=) But what i meant is that I think the inner being will provide the guidance, because, afterall, love is the connection of the essence and inner being right?
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Angela on Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:43 am

Kenny wrote:
Eventually, the conflicting personalities will cause enough trouble that both will split. Opposing personalities will not balance each other out, it's like trying to mix oil and water, you can't.

I agree with Kenneth. Ultimately the essence between two people is what forms the invisible “bond” that hold them together. Actually, when I was typing that post, I thought of the saying of “opposites attract” so when you mentioned it, I was like….hahahah!

Do you guys think love is actually necessary for humanity? Because won't we continue existing without love?

Its true that we will continue existing without love. Think of the nuns or the people who choose to pursue their dreams independently. They still go about their lives the way we do. BUT..haha theres always a but =P I think its just a little something more that we can experience in life…something that life – and nature – has to offer. And, just like sophia mentioned in her post, “the inner being will provide the guidance, because, afterall, love is the connection of the essence and inner being” Its hard to predict what will happen….so its kind of like….go with the flow of nature….some people will find everlasting happiness and warmth from the love from his/her partner, but others can still live life happily and successfully even if they are not married or experiencing love. [edit later]
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  rosAA on Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:54 am

Fionaaa Smile wrote:Rosa,
frankly, I can't imagine you as a housewife nor can I imagine you settling down. Considering someone with your character - one consisting of a strong personality - well...they\'re supposed to go out into the world advocating and making things possible. Unless you want to do that in the huge room of your mansion that your rich husband bought for you. lol =P

Ok so, what causes this human tendency to look for somewhere to belong? Is it intrinsic, or is it a product of the ego-mind? "Society expects me to marry and settle down. Everyone else is having kids, so I should too"
To answer your question: I don't think so, why else would twins living on opposites poles of the world feel a mutual intimate connection?
Also, what causes the strengthening of the connection of essence between two people? As in your roommate example, living together? What about the twins - perhaps being together in the womb for nine months?

AHAHAHA. you can't imagine me settling down. hilarioussss.
but then again, don't you want a point in your life when you just don't have to do many things at once? high school is blehhh tiring.

Personally speaking, I think that the want to settle down is something more of an Instinct, not a product of the ego-mind. Instinct as in more of the primitive nature to create a family etcetc. Like you said before in your original question, love may be something that is a part of nature that gets living things riled up to reproduce and "keep the line going." So in this case, there is a sort of a basic nature that applies to not only humans but to almost all living beings to settle down one way or another to find a family to stick to after leaving your original family.

However, the want to settle down may be out of NOT the ego-mind but more of the personal essence. I don't think that people will be wanting to --> have sex with his or her spouse --> have kids --> family TADA if they were forced to. Sure, people were forced to in the past when social classes were extremely important. Social classes may be a product of the ego-mind as it divides people among themselves according to wealth and hereditary status. However, the forced marriage wasn't a want from themselves if they didn't want to, did they? Wasn't it more of a force-kind of a thing? So in this matter, the want to settle down with a marriage and a family may be out of more of the personal essence depending on whether you want a marriage and a family to spend the rest of your life with. I remember Bradley asked Guenther before last year during class why he never married. Guenther just laughed and said, "Isn't it much easier and comfortable without a whole responsibility on your back to take care of?" In such case, maybe Guenther never found the perfect woman he wanted to marry (hope this doesn't offend him or anything). Or it may be that he DID find one but didn't want the responsibility to marry the person.

blinkblink.

Even if you've found a person that is the perfect match for you but you don't want to have a marriage because you fear the commitment, is that the product of the ego-mind?

Now I've realized that I'm going in massive circles...hope you get this. Maybe I"ll draw a picture and post it up here tomorrow or later today :]

In response to your answer to my question (HAHA) I think that proximity does still have to do quite a lot with people's connection with essence. Twins are more special, aren't they? First of all, like you said, they've been living in the same womb for nine months before they have come out to the physical world. Secondly, they have a biological connection between them as they were from the same egg or at least they have the same parents with the same kind of blood running through their veins. With these circumstances, doesn't this kind of exclude them from what I was talking about because they have this kind of a stronger connection between them compared to the essence relationship between two people that have not met each other before/are only friends?

I read Henning's response to my question and he said that Lee once said that in a relationship, proximity is one of the most important factors. I guess that he does have a point in saying that long-distance relationships usually don't work out, and webcamming isn't like meeting a person in person. Perhaps this may be a product out of people's need for physical proof. Long distance relationships still send emails to each other, call each other, etc etc but still don't work out (USUALLY) because the physical being of each other aren't there. Would this be because of humans' need for something to feed their senses? Moving OUT from the whole sexual relationship thing as I've apparently used the example with long distance relationships.
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Vicky on Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:37 pm

I believe we can love more than one person - but how deep can love get? We can feel the differences in levels of love, but it fluctuates. How is the depth decided?


Yes, I completely agree with Joey on this. Since everyone is different, they are bound to have different experiences with love in life. Just like what Joey said, people are capable of loving more than one person romantically in their love. It is all a matter of personality. It seems to me that we have imputed a sort of stereotypical definition for “true love” – that only one person we meet in life can be labeled as our true love. I’d like to think of “true love” as having, as suggested by the words themselves, TRUE love. As long as two people can share genuine feelings with each other and really care for each other, I think that kind of relationship constitutes true love. Individuals who can communicate with each other freely by letting their ego minds subside and permitting their essence to slip in can be said to have true love for each other. Yes, so that was my response to Joey’s awesome insight.Very Happy

As for your question, Joey, I think the depth of each love is measured according to the amount of connection we feel between them. I remember you posting your idea marriage – to fall in love with the person over and over again. This is like saying that you’re falling deeper and deeper in love with the person continuously. I believe that there is no rock bottom for love. It is a positive emotion – it is happy. There can never be too little happiness in the world. That is why love’s potential is immeasurable. Yet, the “depth” of love that we feel for different people, I believe, is the result of the amount of connection we feel for them. It is how emotionally connected we are.

Do you guys think love is actually necessary for humanity? Because won't we continue existing without love?


I believe that love is necessary for humanity. I may be putting this too generally, but I think that without love, people will be much more inclined to kill each other. Love is the fountain for positive emotions. From love stems happiness, contentment, exuberance, you name it. When we are happy, don’t we have this feeling of appreciation for someone? Yes, we can continue existing without love, but we’ll just end up amplifying our ego minds even more. Without having an outlet from the ego mind, I believe that we will have basically nothing to do. Isn’t love what allows the ego mind to let its guard down and permit the individual to connect with another? With the ego mind in domination – even more so then before, then we end up focusing on is more egocentric needs and survival methods. We won’t care for each other. We’ll just keep going on in life only concerned with our personal benefits. But what kind of world would that be? Without love, we’re just a bunch of passive and detached robots.
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  soph on Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:15 pm

I believe we can love more than one person - but how deep can love get? We can feel the differences in levels of love, but it fluctuates. How is the depth decided?

I think there isnt really a limit in how deep love can get because it is the free flow outpour of the essence, therefore there is really no boundaries or limits to that intense inner connection is there? However, we need to be careful not to let the ego mind get in the way. For example, like I mentioned before, we can want something to the point where we become obsessed with it. Like crazy love right? I think this is where the connection of the inner beings are disrupted by the craziness of the ego mind over drive. But what causes this??? How does the intimate connection of two souls be disturbed by the ego mind to cause this love to become obsession or something unpure?

When we love something so much that it becomes irrational and insane, we need to be careful and examine ourselves to realise whether this "love" is still that untainted connection of the essece, or has it become distorted because of the workings of the ego mind. Because when the ego mind budges into love, it becomes unpure and cannot be sustainable. Its the same as when a piece of white paper becomes stained with even the slightest stain of ink, it cannot be erased to become what that same piece of clean white paper again. The feelings may change as the ego mind mingles into the love and this may cause the connection between the beings to grow apart and eventually unfamilar with one another... (omg this is so tragic Shocked )

I think the different levels of love and the emotions associated with each of the levels depends on the connection of the soul and how much of the ego mind is present. If the ego mind guard is high up (therefore the being connection cannot be deep), it can be considered maybe just a liking for that person. But if the ego mind can be extracted, pulled out or temporarily stored away then the connection between the beings can be sincere and therefore the feelings of true deep love can heighten.

And I also agree with what Joey said about how we can experience more than one feelings of true love to more than one person. (Not to say that we can all be pimps and pimpettes, or casanova for that matter Razz) Well, there are some 6 billion people on the face of this planet, and we as humans simply cannot expect our inner beings to only feel that intimate profound sense of connection to only ONE SINGLE SOUL. Because the world is big, and if it is in our nature for us to find a soulmate, we cannot be expected to tread every single square meter of the planet in order to find that person we are supposed to be connected with. It is just not possible so I think it is reasonable that we may feel connections with more than one person on the level of the essence.

I think love is essential for human beings. Because doesnt the inner being/essence/soul rely on love as the source? (I thought we read something liek this in one of the packets this year?) Like Vicky said, happiness, contentment and all those positive emotions originally stem from love. I think if there were no love on this world, we would not live the way we do. We may not even exist until now and may have died off long ago. Think about all the relationships between friends, family, and lovers. They are all based on feelings of affection and connection of the emotions and essence. Eg. if two brothers didnt love each other, the tiniest dispute or argument could end both their lives in the hands of another. I think love is an essential part of our beings, therefore inseparable from humanity. farao
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  joannneee on Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:25 pm

Do you guys think love is actually necessary for humanity? Because won't we continue existing without love?

I do think love is needed for survival, even in the most base of human existence. As Vick said in her post, love is the foundation of soooo many positive emotions - it encompasses all the great things about life. Don't we love another person, a friend, our family? Don't we love our pet dogs and love to play chess or some other game? It's about passion in life - I suppose a drive, something that makes us want to go on - that makes love so significant to us.

Love is not a delicacy, but rather a necessity. I don't think someone is over-exaggerating when they say they love a double cheese burger, or a delicious looking cheese cake; doesn't liking something eventually mean that we are under a degree - though minuscule - of love? Like is only a thinner version, a lighter version, of love, so I think love is all around us, literally, and perhaps clichés aren't as cliché as they seem to be.

I believe that there is no rock bottom for love.

Yep, I believe in what Vick says. Very Happy Sometimes we feel overwhelmed by the people around us, like we're suffocating under the consistency and sometimes odd quirks that many of us have as well - only that we don't know them. It takes a certain amount of selective observation - by this, I mean we can choose to disregard those odd quirks and continue being friends with them - and this is what makes friendships and love last. Perhaps proximity is what makes two people the closest they can get - I believe that - but it also allows the partner to see the flaws of the other, and as Anita said, see the unevenness of color on the stone. But acceptance is one of the hardest to achieve in a relationship; this pure, unselfish love can be viewed as the epitome of love. Do you think this the best kind of love? Do you think this is even possible?
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Fionaaa :) on Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:34 pm

Some thoughts:
Love - something that intellectuals, kings, peasants, explorers, leaders, celebrities, and artists have tried to classify over the last few thousand years.

It is probably what we are all searching for, yet there's is never enough to go around in this world.
love in general -
It may seem like love is the most ubiquitous thing on the planet, but when you stare into the eyes of the lonely man who has braved 83 years of life on earth without finding a loving wife, or the eyes of the child suffering from post-war shock syndromes, don't you wonder where the love has gone? Are these two types of suffering the same?

----------------------------------

Joanne,
(to your previous reply)
Who we fall in love with is probably the last person we would expect to fall in love with. So as we all learned from Emerson's studies, spontaneity is key.
Because with spontaneity, the ego-mind does not interfere, it HAS no time to interfere.

So is love a purely human attribute? Do animals feel love?

Ah, so you're saying that humans don't all tend to love a single person for a lifetime. It is merely based on personality, which is the unique texture [of essence] that every person possesses. So the kind of love you pursue and obtain depends on the type of person you are. So does this mean that love for a lifetime is not what humans naturally incline towards? Then why is it that many couples stay together for so long - is it because their personalities require them to find someone to support them and to settle down with?

Yes, I read that article too. It would probably take a while to explain WHY "the adventurous [are attracted] to the adventurous, the people who seek stability to the people that are alike them. However, the compassionate, willing type is often more attracted to the dominating, decisive type, and vice versa."
Why is it that for the latter example, the opposites attract, while the first one, the same attract? And why do they attract anyway? Nature's purpose is just to make us continue the line. Doesn't matter with who. Hmm.

"how deep can love get?"
Great question. I can't really answer that atm because it is impossible to measure the depth of love (it's just like measuring the depth of essence - how far does essence go? are the depths of all our essences the same?), but a question similar to that is -
Regarding the couples who are truly in love and have stayed together all their lives - do they all have the same depth of "love"? Since there is no end to the amount of love humans can feel, right?

sophia,
Aloha. After reading your previous post, I have come up with two purposes for marriage :
1) marriage is to provide security for the ego-mind, because it doesn't like change.

I think [marriage] is a physically, tangible demonstration or display of the love between two people because it can not be simply explained in words nor seen by others.

What I'm inferring here is that
2) marriage is simply a label for love, since humans love labeling and claiming things they can't explain.
thanks soph for the clarity!

Hmmm...how do essences fit with each other? Why DO they need to fit, since aren't they all part of a ONENESS?

It is like when do we know when a fruit will ripen on the tree? We do not. But nature itself and the tree will know so that the fruit will drop from the tree and detach from it when it cannot become any more ripe.
Great example. So finding love is simply a matter of time, because if we trust ourselves, trust essence, love will come.

Angela,
greetings, i have a few things to point out -
Its true that we will continue existing without love. Think of the nuns or the people who choose to pursue their dreams independently.
FALLACY. Nuns don't have love relationships with earthlings because they are cultivating one with GOD. They have given up human love for divine love. So, Are these two the same? What do you think?
Some people will find everlasting happiness and warmth from the love from his/her partner, but others can still live life happily and successfully even if they are not married or experiencing love.
Are you sure? Because aren't there myriads of stories out there detailing how even though people some may be rich and successful, they still feel empty because of the lack of love in their lives? Hm, now that I think of it, it depends on your perspective of "successful" and "love" Perhaps success may be building a prosperous school for orphans in Nigeria. thus, you have found love, although a different kind of love. But success can also mean gaining vast amounts of money that...perhaps, mean nothing at all.

Rosa,
So in this case, there is a sort of a basic nature that applies to not only humans but to almost all living beings to settle down one way or another to find a family to stick to after leaving your original family.
Oh, so marriage provides a means for us to support ourselves through hardship and conflict. Rather selfish if you think about it, but hm, i guess not if it's a mutual thing ;]

Perhaps Guenther's essence just didn't match anyones. =O
I'm looking forward to your picture ;]
Your idea is that proximity plays a big part in love and essence connections. I agree - the evidence is convincing. However, isn't essence the nonlocal domain, and doesn't the nonlocal domain not have distance and time? So why is it that we feel and connect with people's essence more strongly when we are close to them?

Vicky,
"I may be putting this too generally, but I think that without love, people will be much more inclined to kill each other."
And ultimately wipe out humanity right? (Isn't that happening right now? O_O)
Do you think animals feel love? Because if they don't, they aren't exactly killing each other off right? Or perhaps they can't feel hate either.
Perhaps love is here to control our ego-mind, to stop us from "killing each other." But love also brings about immense pain. Sometimes it let's the ego-mind control it.
But it will prevail in the end? Love triumphs all?

-----------------------------------------------------
To EVERYONE:

"Love is a temporary madness. It erupts like an earthquake and then subsides. And when it subsides you have to make a decision. You have to work out whether your roots have become so entwined together that it is inconceivable that you should ever part. Because this is what love is. Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the promulgation of promises of eternal passion. That is just being "in love" which any of us can convince ourselves we are.
Love itself is what is left over when being in love has burned away, and this is both an art and a fortunate accident. Your mother and I had it, we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two."
Captain Corelli's Mandolin6. "Love is the beauty of the soul."
--St. Augustine

"From every human being there rises a light that reaches straight to heaven. And when two souls that are destined to be together find each other, their streams of light flow together, and a single brighter light goes forth from their united being."
--Unknown


Beautifully said? Absolute nonsense?
What are your thoughts on these two quotes?
Is the second quote talking about essence?
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  hen on Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:55 pm

Kenny wrote:
Fionaaa Smile wrote:What about "opposites attract"? Wink

That's true, but only for awhile. The initial attraction felt is because both people are getting in touch with something completely different from what they normally know/feel/see. Eventually, the conflicting personalities will cause enough trouble that both will split. Opposing personalities will not balance each other out, it's like trying to mix oil and water, you can't.

Opposites do not have to oppose one another. We are, as set by nature, attracted to the opposite sex. Magnets are also attracted to opposite polarities, and in their case, ONLY ever opposite polarities.

If there is any conflict between opposites, then I believe it must be an uneven balance. In cooking, sugar is often used in salted dishes to balance out the flavor. However, too much sugar will result in a disgusting dish. There is a specific range that fits the balance, and anything thing outside the range will upset this balance.

Humans, however, aren't like dishes of food. You can't decide how many nuts or how many pounds of fruit you want in us. This is why there are so few perfectly balanced opposites personalities in existence, and probably why you came up with that assumption.
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  joyceychen on Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:07 pm

i'll just add some of my random thoughts after super-skimming through the previous replies Very Happy (so forgive me if i repeat something that's already been addressed)

is love simple? someone mentioned how you can't love a celebrity or whatever if you dont even know them, but then we called that obsession and that might not exactly be love? but then i think emily said it could still be. ANYWHO. what about...er.. when a mother sees a child and immediately feels love for him/her? (not the best example, but i can't think of a really good one to express what i'm trying to point out/ask), like that pure, simple, 單純的愛. or is that being too naive? connection of essence?

but ok, that's kinda off the point

someone mightve mentioned this. but love seems to suggest choice, especially in mates. we know in bio, random mating can still let a species survive and evolve, so for them, they dont need love? but how different are humans from other animals? we've got the egomind, that's one thing.

hm...about your first quote, fi. that reminds me of someone telling me how in a marriage, love changes. initially, it's what we (janie) look for, but as the marriage continues and children start flowing into the picture, that love needs to change. imagine being as sensual as janie with kids around. an aspect of responsibility comes in. does this alter love? or maybe you still love your partner just as much, but express it differently?
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Joshua on Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:11 pm

Hey!

I think that the second quote is quite possible. Becuase when one finds someone else that they truely love their spirits connect and it becomes brighter. However, the hard part of life is to find the right other half. When one finds another that he/she truly loves, they should be connected and close enough to be marked as one unity. Not neccesarily the same, since both carries their individuality but they should combine and create more light.

THe state of being in love is somewhat blind, and this saying is there because it is the essence that one is connecting with and is a place where the ego-mind cannot take control. THus, when one is truly in love or in that state, they are goin to somewhere new, somewhere where only the essence and the instincts can take them. Becuase people are so used for the ego-mind to take control and to relate everything to the past and experience where we classify everything, and love is something where the ego-mind cannot control, thus many people feels like being in love is "blind".

Afterall, love is so complicated yet easy that it is something that we learn to give and recieve through out life and the learning never stops.

To Rosa, I think that the reason long distance relationships usually dont work out is because we as humans have both the physical and the spiritual parts to us, even if the spritual/essence/mind part of us are fulfilled in love, the physical part also requires the satisfaction, and this is not neccesarily something bad, it is merely a part of us that we need. Sometimes as u have mentioned, the mind/spiritual breaks down and tips the balance.
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Kenny on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:21 am

hen wrote:
Opposites do not have to oppose one another. We are, as set by nature, attracted to the opposite sex. Magnets are also attracted to opposite polarities, and in their case, ONLY ever opposite polarities.

If there is any conflict between opposites, then I believe it must be an uneven balance. In cooking, sugar is often used in salted dishes to balance out the flavor. However, too much sugar will result in a disgusting dish. There is a specific range that fits the balance, and anything thing outside the range will upset this balance.

Humans, however, aren't like dishes of food. You can't decide how many nuts or how many pounds of fruit you want in us. This is why there are so few perfectly balanced opposites personalities in existence, and probably why you came up with that assumption.

Oh, I meant that they don't balance at all, they don't mix at all, lets say two people have personalities -2 and +2 I don't that if they are put together you get a 0 and achieve perfect balance, I mean that they don't even cancel each other out, as long as two people have largely opposing personalities, they won't fit. Ultimately you want to look for someone who you can connect as fully as possible with, someone who's personality agrees with your and yet is different. We like differences and newness, but not opposition.

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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Vicky on Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:37 pm

Do you think animals feel love? Because if they don't, they aren't exactly killing each other off right? Or perhaps they can't feel hate either.


That is kind of hard to answer. According to paleontologists, what makes the species that eventually evolved into us, Homo sapiens, special is that they were known to bury their dead. This shows that they seem to have developed a deeper emotional bond between each other besides one that merely ensures reproductive success. Yet, does this mean that other animals are not capable of feeling love? I’m not quite sure. For instance, look at puppies; don’t they become extremely loyal to their owners after a while? Isn’t this love? It is not uncommon to come across stories in which a dog ends up saving his owner. Why would the dog even try to save its owner if it didn’t feel a kind of emotional connection with the owner? I wouldn’t go as far as to say that what the dog feels for its owner is love, but I believe that there is some sort of “loving” feeling the dog feels towards its owner.

But it will prevail in the end? Love triumphs all?


I believe that love only triumphs in relationships in which two individuals are truly trying to connect with each other. As you mentioned, along with the positive emotions that result from falling in love, individuals are also very much prone to experiencing immense pain. But, as you’ve pointed out, the colossal amount of pain that comes from love seems to be derived from the ego mind’s inner workings. I agree. That is why couples who are constantly bickering and fueling more anger by the egocentric thoughts of the ego mind will not have a relationship filled with love. If those who are in a relationship refuse to listen to the other, when will they let true love flood between them? Don’t they just end up finding more faults in each other? When people let the ego mind take over a relationship, then the relationship itself is essentially over. People end up blocking other people out and through the confines of the ego mind; they end up finding even more negative aspects of the other. Divorce seems inevitable, sooner or later. On the other hand, if people are willing to listen before they judge and come to a consensus during fights, then they can allow love to seep through. Now that is the foundation of true love – effective communication skills both in the physical domain and at the essence level.

"From every human being there rises a light that reaches straight to heaven. And when two souls that are destined to be together find each other, their streams of light flow together, and a single brighter light goes forth from their united being."
--Unknown


I agree with this quote in that when two compatible souls find each other, their essence flows freely between them, and unite them. This is perhaps the “sparks” and “fireworks” that people in love are constantly talking about. The feeling of being “passionately” in love is another way of saying “not having the ego mind in the way of appreciating each other.” But, of course, the first phrase sounds much better than the latter.

There is a part of the quote that I disagree with, though. It is the part of “two souls being destined for each other.” Like what I said yesterday, I don’t believe that people are restricted to just having one soulmate in life. Perhaps for certain people, there is that one person that can truly connect with them. But what about others? I believe, just like what Joey said, it is all a matter of the individual’s personality. Perhaps person A is more outgoing than person B, which allows her to connect with more than one person.

I’ll post my thinks on your first quote tomorrow. For now, I gotta go cram SAT bio! Very Happy
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  soph on Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:43 pm

hihihi Suspect

Hmmm...how do essences fit with each other? Why DO they need to fit, since aren't they all part of a ONENESS?

I think, as with radio frequencies, our essences each have a characteristic frequency of its own. That is what sets us apart and defines us as individuals and makes us different from all other human being. Since there is not one person on the face of this planet or anywhere that is EXACTLY the same as any of us right? So I think when the essences "click" together, it is like when the radio station catches the frequency of a particular station. Or more like when two wheels - you know the ones with the teeth on them?- fit together. There are different sized teeth and everyone of us have a different pattern or teeth that defines our beings. And when the essences click together, it is like the clicking of the wheels, the teeth fit perfectly with one another, and a continuous chain reaction of connection occurs.

We are all part of the universal soul, and in oneness with each other. However, as many of us have said before, love is an essential part of our lives, so much that it is needed for suvival. And I think the clicking of the essences is the beginning of those feelings of love between two beings. We need love to survive, and thus we need to click with particular people to make our lives worthwhile. We are at one with the universal soul, but there are specific people who possess similar frequencies as us and can therefore cause our essences to click together. (does that make sense?) Or else what would happen if we clicked with absolutely every single person we came into contact with? And suppose if we loved (like lovers-wise) every single individual of the opposite gender? What would happen? The world would be pretty scary.

To EVERYONE:

"Love is a temporary madness. It erupts like an earthquake and then subsides. And when it subsides you have to make a decision. You have to work out whether your roots have become so entwined together that it is inconceivable that you should ever part. Because this is what love is. Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the promulgation of promises of eternal passion. That is just being "in love" which any of us can convince ourselves we are.
Love itself is what is left over when being in love has burned away, and this is both an art and a fortunate accident. Your mother and I had it, we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two."
Captain Corelli's Mandolin6. "Love is the beauty of the soul."
--St. Augustine

"From every human being there rises a light that reaches straight to heaven. And when two souls that are destined to be together find each other, their streams of light flow together, and a single brighter light goes forth from their united being."
--Unknown

I agree with the first quote. Because those feelings of being "in love" is what catches the attention of the ego mind and causes us to feel overwhelmed and exhilarated by the feelings of love. The ego mind often confuses this with love because the feelings are simply so strong and can completely dominate and possess us. When two people are past the physical passion and the fun and excitement of being in love, what remains (if there is anything that remains) is what is true love. Those feelings of love is the pure, untainted kind that is not mingled or confused with the feelings of the pounding heart beat when he/she is around you, or the physical satisfaction that leaves us feeling happy. You get what Im trying to say? I do think that the second quote is talking about the essence. Because the "heaven" is liek the universal soul, the higher being, the ultimate connection that we all possess. And when we find our "soulmates", the essences become intertwined together and as they embark on the journey through life together, they find that they become ever closer on the essence level because it is the love that exists that binds them togehter in this unimaginable way. (Am i making sense?)

Sleep cant believe theres school tomorrow.. =.=
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Fionaaa :) on Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:01 am

If there is any conflict between opposites, then I believe it must be an uneven balance. In cooking, sugar is often used in salted dishes to balance out the flavor. However, too much sugar will result in a disgusting dish. There is a specific range that fits the balance, and anything thing outside the range will upset this balance.
Terrific analogy, Henning. Yes I agree there much be an unbalance. However, what is the unbalance? Is it a person giving too much or too little in a relationship? Does this cause the essence of the relationship to become "a disgusting dish"?

We like differences and newness, but not opposition.
Ken. I totally agree - personally, I would want difference but not opposition. But that is only the ego-mind speaking to fend off any strikes to its...ego.
But anyway, isn't opposition what makes us grow? No one can truly tell the innate character of someone unless that person is faced with danger and has to react instinctually.
Another question - don't you think it's weird that individuals may be attracted to a person with different qualities, yet humanity as a whole has discriminated difference for centuries? Think of the immigrants at the start of the 20th century, the Jews in WWII, the Rwandan genocide.
We have always feared and tried to suppress those differing from us, but you're suggesting that we as individuals are attracted to a different aura in another person. Is it because society is consisted of myriads of individuals and they all have each other's support so they aren't afraid?
oh wow this has absolutely nothing to do with my question - but as usual, digressions are valuable. =]

joyce, the love you're talking about - the love of a mother - is a different kind of love we're discussing here. Yes it is simple and genuine - perhaps the most beautiful occurrence on earth, a mother's love. And it may seem like essence, but it's actually part of the human cycle. Mother's naturally have love for their children because nature wants them to take good care of them.
anyway, the term "mother's love" is probably just a label for the connection of essence the mother feels with the child. This leads back to the original question, what is love? is it essence?

Josh, i like how you say that love is something the ego-mind can't classify, so in turn many people call themselves blindly in love because the ego-mind cannot understand.

Good Luck on SATs Everyone!
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  ivy on Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:45 pm

hmmm. well, i dont think there is such a thing as too much essence, because you can't calculate essence by quantity. however, i think that the essence is connecting, however, it is the ego mind that is working on the people. the ego mind creates fear, suspicion, jealousy, and whatnot. This is the reason why that people are trying to overly protective of their spouses or girlfriend/boyfriend. it's the ego mind that is wayyy too possessive, which results in "loving the other too much." so the love is "polluted" by the ego mind, and there will be no trust, but that is from the insecurity that results from love.

As for opposites attracts... people often feel attracted to someone different from you, because the newness and the excitement. people who live in a stable condition might fall in love with a rogue, because that difference has sparked chemistry. however, can this chemistry be true love or simply passion for the moment? however, isn't this what makes a relationship works? One can be passionate, while the other can be rational, so they can work together with one executing the actions, while the other planning the future. well, that's just my thought. opposites attract might be because of a sudden impulse, but it also might be because that is what makes a relationship works
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  joyceychen on Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:53 pm

Fionaaa Smile wrote:
joyce, the love you're talking about - the love of a mother - is a different kind of love we're discussing here. Yes it is simple and genuine - perhaps the most beautiful occurrence on earth, a mother's love. And it may seem like essence, but it's actually part of the human cycle. Mother's naturally have love for their children because nature wants them to take good care of them.
anyway, the term "mother's love" is probably just a label for the connection of essence the mother feels with the child. This leads back to the original question, what is love? is it essence?
oh right, i shouldve realized/remembered we were talking about love between and man and woman xP (wait, what about same gender love?)
hm...love is so many things. it's a feeling, but then also so much more than that. it's a connection between two people, which could be beings connecting. is love really define-able? maybe it's something that crosses into both the worlds of the egomind and being.
sorry my answer is so indefinite. maybe that's because love is just like that
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  JTizzel on Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:19 pm

Words are created by the ego mind, yet feelings are initially triggered by the soul. Thus, the ego mind many times does not understand the texture of the soul thus does not manifest the word to describe love. Yet, when we are sad, we know this emotion is called sadness, when we get mad, we know that this emotion is madness.
Im sure, the day we all fall in love, or even if we are in love already, we know that feeling, the indescribable feeling, the unshared, the sweet, longlasting feeling is called love.

Love is always patient;13

love is always kind;

love is never envious

or arrogant with pride.

Nor is she conceited,

5 and she is never rude;

she never thinks just of herself

or ever get annoyed.

She never is resentful;

6 is never glad with sin,

but always glad to side with truth,

whene'er the truth should win.[b]

7 She bears up under everything,

believes the best in all,

there is no limit to her hope,

and she will never fall.

This is an verse from 1 Corinthians 13 from the Bible.
Yet, in the end, we are only playing with words.
So what is Love?
The only way one can find out, is to be in love.


enjoy
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  joannneee on Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:14 am

To EVERYONE:

"Love is a temporary madness. It erupts like an earthquake and then subsides. And when it subsides you have to make a decision. You have to work out whether your roots have become so entwined together that it is inconceivable that you should ever part. Because this is what love is. Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the promulgation of promises of eternal passion. That is just being "in love" which any of us can convince ourselves we are.
Love itself is what is left over when being in love has burned away, and this is both an art and a fortunate accident. Your mother and I had it, we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two."
Captain Corelli's Mandolin6. "Love is the beauty of the soul."
--St. Augustine

"From every human being there rises a light that reaches straight to heaven. And when two souls that are destined to be together find each other, their streams of light flow together, and a single brighter light goes forth from their united being."
--Unknown

Beautifully said? Absolute nonsense?
What are your thoughts on these two quotes?
Is the second quote talking about essence?

Sorry for the late reply. Razz

Being in love... is it the act of being in love? Or is being in love a state of mind, merely?

Falling in love is easy, but staying in love is hard.

Staying in love is a series of somethings that I would think are not exactly like falling in love - as the first quote describes, there's a curious lack of fireworks. Some people can't accept love without the fire, without the passion. But then, what encompasses love?

Love is sacrifice, as some may say. Love can also be looking at your partner after you've been with him/her and still think that you've made the best decision in your life. Love is leaving dinner on the table after curfew when your partner's out late.

Love is also sticking to someone when they're in a crisis, and giving them hope in a hopeless situation. Love can also be the simple act of nursing them back to health when they're sick. Love can be a lot of things.

Love is when you forget that you're one man who stands alone, but rather two men that can watch each other's back. Roots of the same tree. The mere state of being in love is only a beginning - it's the friction. When you start digging, that's when the work begins.

So I think What is love? is a lot of things. Literally speaking it may be Essence, it may be the connection of souls so deep that merely a small disturbance on the surface of the ocean cannot reach the depths of the sea. But figuratively I think love is maybe everything. Every small act of sacrifice, every thought for the other person, and even if you hate someone, there's always a reason for the hate.

As for Do opposites attract? The kind of people that gravitate towards us are mostly the people that we want to see, or expect to see. Do people who like stability like people who are stable as well? Perhaps. Do kind, compassionate people enjoy always being kind and compassionate? Maybe. Do dominating people want to be around other dominating people? That would be a thought in itself.


Very Happy I hope this wasn't too messy.


Last edited by joannneee on Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Fionaaa :) on Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:19 am

So what is Love?
The only way one can find out, is to be in love.

what do you guys think about JT's quote, is it an answer to all we've been asking?
This little piece of thought covers such vast ground.
No one can classify enlightenment - the only way to find out is to be enlightened.
No one can classify essence - the only way to find out is to shut out the ego-mind and focus on the now.
So this leads to love and essence sharing something in common, the inability to be labeled and their. spontaneous emergence.
So then what are these discussions for, as we have asked many times already?
Perhaps they are here to prepare us for the day when love and essence really do come.
Or if they are already here for you, to help you understand the wonder you're experiencing.
Btw beautiful song Sad


opposites attract might be because of a sudden impulse, but it also might be because that is what makes a relationship works
hmmm Ivy, interesting thought here - so it's for the practicality? Perhaps marriage is here so that we have an easier and more efficient time on earth. What a cold thought though!
-----------------------------------------------
joanne - thanks for the insightful post. i'll reply soon.


Last edited by Fionaaa :) on Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:28 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  joyceychen on Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:26 am

just because the only way to truly understand something is to be it doesnt mean discussing it is meaningless yes, perhaps these discussions will better prepare us, let us have a better understanding. but on an quest for an answer, isnt the journey itself half the fun? as i stated in bradley's thread, the answer may not be as important as your question and what you do to try to obtain your answer. (Guenther's "purpose of life is to find the purpose")

but from your little summation, the attributes we have here given to love and essence, seem smiliar. did anyone say whether love was a product of the egomind or anything along those lines? (didnt really read everything, so i dont want to make a faulty conclusion without getting all the facts here straight first)
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Re: Love. It may seem impossible to define, but let's try anyway.

Post  Fionaaa :) on Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:38 am

joyce, i never said that these discussions were meaningless. quite obviously, they are bursting with depth and meaning - i was only trying to pinpoint a certain purpose. cyclops

--------------------------

The mere state of being in love is only a beginning - it's the friction. When you start digging, that's when the work begins.
But don't you agree that when we experience love's work, we are still in the state of being in love?

So I think What is love? is a lot of things. Literally speaking it may be Essence, it may be the connection of souls so deep that merely a small disturbance on the surface of the ocean can reach the depths of the sea. But figuratively I think love is maybe everything. Every small act of sacrifice, ever thought for the other person, and even if you hate someone, there's always a reason.

beautifully encapsulated.
And we can start a whole new discussion about hate. however, how does hate relate to love, besides being quite the opposite?
I love your ocean analogy.
Yes perhaps love is something so close, so amazing, between two beings that even their essence - which is part of the whole big pool of essence - is stirred.
And that is when "merely a small disturbance on the surface of the ocean can reach the depths of the sea."
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