Availability of Consciousness

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Availability of Consciousness

Post  Andy.S on Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:04 pm

Before asking my question, let us first warm up with this opening topic shall we?
As we all know, Consciousness has been generally defined as the awareness of one’s self and its surroundings.

But as shown from an expert of A Practical Guide to Vibrational Medicine Consciousness can be defined as something more than just “awareness”

“Consciousness is not merely a by-product of electrical and chemical signal-processing in the human brain. Consciousness is a kind of energy…
Consciousness has ghostlike qualities that allow it to reside not only in the brain but beyond the body itself. From the perspective of vibrational medicine, our consciousness is not limited to the brain and central nervous system but is also seen as an integral aspect of the human heart”

Consciousness is a kind of energy that flows throughout our body. While we may not understand how the “soul” or “being” influences our biological system, we do know that each sub-system in our body has its own consciousness. Our body is composed of numerous organs and tissue. Each specific organ has its own job that works for the body as a whole, just like a cell in our blood veins. Therefore, our minds may control the body, but every organ still has its own consciousness…an awareness of itself and its surroundings.

If the human organs have their own individual consciousness, then would the rest of the things in the world also have consciousness? Perhaps living creatures like a plant? Or an unanimated rock?
What do you think?


Forum Sites
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2232847#post2232847
http://forums.philosophyforums.com/threads/can-there-be-artificial-consciousness-and-emotion-35410.html
http://forum.visionary-spiritual-institute.com.au/showthread.php?p=8114#post8114
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=397871#post397871
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=11411
http://www.ai-forum.org/forum.asp?forum_id=1
http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20917


Last edited by Andy.S on Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:18 pm; edited 6 times in total
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Jason Jr. on Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:44 pm

First Post

Is Mine
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Fermi Fang on Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:45 pm

my *****s thread

must post must post..
ima save this post =]
================================================================================================
ok umm down to the topic .... ermm.. OFcourse everything has ... conscious ... cuz as long as it has life in it... it has conscious ... and why is that? cuz i friggin said so~ ok maybe not... but seriously.. anything htat is alive SHOULD have a conscious ... i mean... like "Consciousness is a kind of energy that flows throughout our body" ... which means as long as the "thing" has a body... then it has .. energy flowing through it ... then.. that means it has a conscious ... ok... that was like totall load of bs .... well.. wat should i simply just say .... does feeling count as having conscious ? .... if it does... then all organisms have conscious .... though the degree of it may very since some organisms respond to few things.... while more complex ones like humans respond to more... though i really doubt organs have conscious ... but maybe they do... just that their conscious is controlled by the ... whole system lol... this sounds so... strange.. but yea... wat EVAR

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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  proey on Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:35 pm

Well Andy that's an interesting question Smile Well I'd think of it this way--going back to the waves and particles that everything is supposedly made of. In the virtual realm, everything is made of energy right? Even mass. Like Einstein's equation, E=MC^2, energy and mass are interchangeable. Meaning that, every organ system in our body, every plant, tree, and even a rock, is made of energy. Perhaps the difference in these things that makes them have a different appearance and different thoughts and so on is that their wavelengths are different--the energy has a slight difference, just like a small mutation in our DNA can cause a number of outward and inward differences.

Now to the question--can a rock think? LOL it sounds so weird asking that because we all think, "No. It's an inanimate object. How the hell can it think!?" But for all we know, it DOES have thoughts, just that it's physical entity does not allow for the expression of these thoughts. You know when we break a rock, it gives off energy of some sort, with the breaking of bonds and stuff. This energy may be weak and small, but it is there. And it may be no different than the energy we express when we are in pain. Maybe the rock is in pain too. We don't know, because we do not have the means to interpret every type of energy there is out there. And i might be diverging from your actual subject lol but I think this is very interesting Smile))
Nice question yo.
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Angel on Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:54 pm

Consciousness is a kind of energy…
Consciousness has ghostlike qualities that allow it to reside not only in the brain but beyond the body itself. From the perspective of vibrational medicine, our consciousness is not limited to the brain and central nervous system but is also seen as an integral aspect of the human heart
Oh wow, Andy. Consciousness is a kind of energy ... Smile Consciousness is all around and about us; I really support the idea that consciousness is not only a stream of aliveness and attentiveness within the brain, mind, and physical body, but is also an energy that is sustained throughout our environment, the air, and all spaces around us. “Our consciousness is not limited to the brain and central nervous system but is also seen as an integral aspect of the human heart.” This is true interconnectivity. It’s beautiful Very Happy There is nothing that governs or restricts this consciousness, just as there is nothing that can bind the continuation of the stream of consciousness in nature, etc. So – consciousness’s identity as a never-ending flow of energy ... this touches upon reincarnation and a certain “cycle of life” (sorry I’m bringing up Luoh’s topic) ... is this consciousness, then, also a seemingly “repetitive” thing? Does it also have a central root and origin, to which all “forms” of consciousness (if there are, that is) belong and are at one with? But then again, perhaps consciousness is a step further along the road of the elements of life, a broader aspect of life that is expanded into other features of the world, such as things of nature and nonliving things.
If the human organs have their own individual consciousness, then would the rest of the things in the world also have consciousness? Perhaps living creatures like a plant? Or an unanimated rock?
What do you think?
Are “life” and “consciousness” two different things, or do they essentially mean the same thing? I’m starting to think that they are quite different, or that one encompasses the other, or that one leads to the other, etc. Take a book, for example. It is a nonliving object, and yet to me it has everything to do with consciousness. It gives off consciousness, for one – it passes on wisdom, expounds on details, and is one of the many things in the world that link us all together and strengthens the bonds of interconnectivity. It is a way of communication through silent understanding, appreciation, questioning, and disagreement. Is this not also energy? It takes place beyond the body, so it is not entrapped within the workings of the brain. So although some things do not have physical “life,” they actually have the “quality of life” in terms of connection and the spreading of unity.
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Luoh on Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:58 pm

HAHA, sweet question Very Happy, good to actually not have to think about a new question to ask every day...

ok, to the question.

i have to agree with Proey, in that everything at the virtual domain is potential and energy, and that at this level, everything is the same. It's like in my post where we talked about reincarnating into a mosquito, and that while this seems to be the lowly form of life, it is actually not, but is actually just a different way to live.

Therefore, everything does have conscious, like proey says, even a rock. Rock's have energy too, as they are made of the same waves that we as humans are, except for the difference in frequency

Very Happy

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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Vincent_Lee on Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:06 pm

Dictionary.com defines consciousness as "the state of being conscious; awareness of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc". I'm just putting that there to make the discussion flow a bit more smoothly.

Angel wrote:Are “life” and “consciousness” two different things, or do they essentially mean the same thing? I’m starting to think that they are quite different, or that one encompasses the other, or that one leads to the other, etc. Take a book, for example. It is a nonliving object, and yet to me it has everything to do with consciousness. It gives off consciousness, for one – it passes on wisdom, expounds on details, and is one of the many things in the world that link us all together and strengthens the bonds of interconnectivity. It is a way of communication through silent understanding, appreciation, questioning, and disagreement. Is this not also energy? It takes place beyond the body, so it is not entrapped within the workings of the brain. So although some things do not have physical “life,” they actually have the “quality of life” in terms of connection and the spreading of unity.

If one is not alive, one cannot be conscious. Life encompasses consciousness. I agree with what you say about books being able to provide consciousness. On the other hand though, a book is very different from a rock. A rock is just a rock, but a book can offer much more as you point out. The book itself contains its writer's consciousness in the words which are delivered to the reader. What consciousness does rock deliver? I don't think it does deliver any consciousness really.

Despite the fact that all objects are constructed of matter, I'm skeptical of them having consciousness just because they are made out of energy. Surely there's a reason for consciousness beyond the fact that they are composed of energy. A rock doesn't have a brain. It can't be aware of its own existence. It's not alive.
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  proey on Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:09 pm

Okay so Lee... since you have so awesomely given us the definition of consciousness, then what is your definition of life? Because, if consciousness is something's own awareness, then who are we to judge if something is conscious or not? We are unable to understand a language different from ours. We cannot BE the rock, so we cannot tell if the rock is conscious or not.

Ok I just thought of something that might not make sense so correct my logic. Ok, imagine that you have a large diamond, and a large regular grey stone, which are both scientifically named "rocks." All particles are made of energy right? Therefore, both of these rocks are made of energy, though it may be different. When people see a huge diamond, they are usually overwhelmed by the brilliance and the "energy" that the diamond gives off, because it does give us a feeling about it, right? We have the senses to detect a physical appearance that may then be interpreted as good or bad. Something that we try to label with words, kind of like an entity's own connotation. Why should the grey stone be any different? It too gives off energy, perhaps a more dull, unnoticeable energy. The giving off of energy allows us to realize it's consciousness, like how we went out in English to feel the trees. Now this is all in theory, and I do not believe that it can be proven as well, since consciousness is something's own thing. Since it cannot be proven, it also cannot be struck down. I think it's dependent on one's own way of thinking, if you believe that consciousness exists in all things or not.

Another thinggg! I dunno if this helps. But plants and animals, and humans, need minerals to survive, right? Rocks are made of minerals, right? Therefore, rocks are essentially part of the life cycle. Also, the decomposition of organic matter turns into soil, which may turn into a rock. Just a thought Smile
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Fionaaa :) on Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:22 pm

Hey Andy,
I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but remember the time when Ms. Kay took us outside to connect with the trees? Well, I always thought that we were connecting with the consciousness of the tree.
It may not be direct or whatsuch, but we do feel calm and in control of ourselves after this session of connection, right? Maybe that's a form of communication from the consciousness of the tree.

Another thing. This is completely out there, but, I have come to realize that the better I treat my things, the better they serve me. For example, I used to hate my TI at the beginning of the year because I didn't know how to use it. I would say, oh god I hate the TI, & I would not treat it well or show respect. This disrespect in turn led to the TI becoming even harder for me to use. This difficulty would incur even more frustration from me. So yes it was a vicious cycle. However, one day I was like, what if i said "i love the TI"? I know that sounds kind of what the heck, but yeah I tried it. I showed it respect. And then I began to know how to use the TI.

Is this the consciousness of the TI sending me signs? Or is it just because I changed my frequency and thoughts and attracted the ease of use for the TI...by using the law of attraction?
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Andy.S on Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:02 pm

From the discussion, I see that almost everyone agrees that consciousness is everwhere. But from Angel to Lee to Proey's discussion...it seems that we are arguing about what can produce consciousness. Lee points out that a rock has no living brain, therefore producing no consciousness of its own. Proey on the otherhand argues that rocks can have consciousness because they still give off energy, except unnoticable to people.
So... Does consciousness really need a organic living thing to produce it (ex;heart or brain) or does it only require the movement of energy?( ex;rock)
By the way, keep this in mind when you answer this question: How would your idea of consciousness apply to a "dead" person? ( Please try answer without using any examples of souls or Being)


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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Philly_CS on Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:04 pm

Ima charging my intellectual ideas

I've already discussed that the water crystallizes into different forms when sound waves pass through it. It really is amazing. This book just shows the crystals of water and has a hundred or so pictures, each vastly different from the other. And here's the thing, the more positive the word, the more beautiful the crystal is. The more negative the word, the more muddy and distorted the crystal gets.
This would explain a lot of the phenomenons with the human body, considering it is composed of significant amount of water.

So anyways, I think it's the attitude and the perspective, once more. You are angry at the TI, you think it is hard to use, it thus becomes hard for you to use. Perspective. There may also be an underlying connection with everything, though I leave that to the rest of the discussions.

Godspeed to the rest of you guys.
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Angel on Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:10 pm

Despite the fact that all objects are constructed of matter, I'm skeptical of them having consciousness just because they are made out of energy.
Good that you pointed out the lifelessness of material things like rocks, Lee Smile Yeah, I do see that now. It seems as if all objects of substance and those that are composed of material have their own forms and frequencies of energy. But I don’t think we can be so certain of the definition of consciousness just yet. We are not sure if these energies also translate into consciousness, because, as Proey pointed out, we are not the rock, or any other inanimate object. They emit certain forms of consciousness and contain certain levels of awareness – and perhaps this is what consciousness can mean; perhaps it is a “around and about” thing, instead of a “contained within” thing.
Another thinggg! I dunno if this helps. But plants and animals, and humans, need minerals to survive, right? Rocks are made of minerals, right? Therefore, rocks are essentially part of the life cycle. Also, the decomposition of organic matter turns into soil, which may turn into a rock. Just a thought
Hahaha Razz You are so cute, Proey. But yes. What you said makes sense – all things of the life cycle do seem to have life, but is this also consciousness (now turning to the “contained within” form of consciousness)?
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  joyceychen on Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:26 pm

hm...i would like to say that only living things have a conscious (like Fi's example of feeling the tree's essence) but what proey brings up seems pretty reasonable too.
does something that we consider "dead" (both for dead bodies and for things like rocks) need to be aware of their surroundings and whatnot? what would they use their conscious for?

LOL fi, your TI example. maybe it's something inside of you that changed. you taking the first step to change could make a change in the result, rather than the TI itself responding. though that's if we believe inanimate objects dont have a conciousness.
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  hen on Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:06 am

Consciousness does not equate to thinking, so then anything has the potential to be conscious.

Yet what happens if i take a rock and split it in two. What happens to its consciousness? Do we have 2 separate consciences that came from one?
Everything is made up of smaller units, which can all be divided out from the larger entity.

So then, what is the smallest unit of a conscious being? Seeing as there doesn't seem to be anyway to possibly answer that, it seems that there's an equal possibility that the consciousness is indeed no more than a byproduct of the brain (as this is the only explanation that seems to explain the base units of a conscious being - which it explains as the brain).

But from what we know, that doesn't seem to be the case either.

Discuss.
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  joyceychen on Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:09 pm

oh and fi, i thought we were going out to feel the being of the trees, not consciousness (though correct me if i'm wrong).
being and consciousness are different things, right? right now, we seem to be on different definitions of consciousness. maybe if we were all on the same page, we could then go on to determine where consciousness can be found.
in andy's original post, he said consciousness is a type of energy. Lee i believe said it's being aware?
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Andy.S on Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:03 pm

Well, let us assume that consciousness is awareness in the form of energy that coexist in almost everything.

To clarify the question, would a dead person still have consciousness? Though we may seem to have trouble distinguishing whether living or nonliving objects have consciousness, most people agree that living things defiantly are conscious...But then... what would a dead body have? It is no longer "alive" so does that mean it loses its consciousness? Or is the consciousness still there?
If a dead body still retains consciousness, then why can't a rock be conscious? A dead body is...well...motionless, and rocks are the same too. If one argues that rocks were not among the living...then how about fossils? Are fossils not rocks? Maybe all rocks have some sort of imprint of life upon them…
What do you think?

By the Way, Hen Ben pointed out something important I want you to discuss:

Yet what happens if i take a rock and split it in two. What happens to its consciousness? Do we have 2 separate consciences that came from one?....So then, what is the smallest unit of a conscious being? Seeing as there doesn't seem to be anyway to possibly answer that, it seems that there's an equal possibility that the consciousness is indeed no more than a byproduct of the brain
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Angel on Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:36 pm

I think the energy that the individual possesses cannot vanish completely, or come to a full stop of any form, since it is encompassed within the entire cycle of life, which relates to the Supreme Being, the nature that the energies spring from. A dead person’s energy has left the body, so it is (most likely) around and about, or perhaps it returns to the flow of the original cycle. I don’t know about that. But if that is so, then does it mean that the consciousness has left the body? I think that consciousness is “around and about” everything, whether it is living or dead. As for rocks … I still think that consciousness in cases such as these are in the “around and about” form instead of the “contained within” form. Should it be that only things that are full of life, things that are in motion, that can express and conduct, have consciousness? Isn’t consciousness, after all, awareness of things? Can a rock be aware of its surrounding environment? And if it gets kicked, can it show any signs of protest? Does consciousness have anything to do with the ability to demonstrate the awareness?

The smallest unit of a conscious being … well, I don’t know if there is a smallest unit. I don’t suppose that there is a smallest unit – consciousness is the flow of energy that is forever continuous and unstoppable, so therefore it isn’t restricted into being any certain size. I don’t know if consciousness results from the workings of the brain. Does it not exist beyond the realms of the brain, a realm which is located partially on the physical plane, I think, since it is a part of the operations carried out by the body.
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  proey on Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:53 pm

Hmmm. Even if a person is physically unconscious, it has been seen that the brain still functions, just it is not physically expressed. That is what we BELIEVE as "unconscious," while it really is not. I remember a couple of episodes of House, Dr. House gave a guy in a coma a migraine. HAHA. Smile

When a rock is chopped in two, I guess the consciousness is split, although the two halves may still retain a connection?... maybe?.. just a thought. Like the saying about people that are cut from the same mold, the rock's individual little energy waves must have shared a sort of bond in order to form that rock. They somehow intuitively found each other.

And Angel, I do not believe that the ability to demonstrate awareness has anything to do with awareness itself. If someone is aware, others may not know, because awareness is within oneself. Like the movie "Awake," where the heart transplant guy under anesthesia is screaming to himself because he can feel the pain, but he is physically unconscious.

But yeah, I agree that there really is no smallest unit of consciousness. I guess each individual wave is its own, and they come together due to similarities to form a functional body, a collective consciousness. I don't really know.
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  joyceychen on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:19 pm

so being "unconscious" is actually not what true; there's no such thing as being "unconscious"
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  proey on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:22 pm

Yeah. Our supposed definition of "unconscious" is pretty much lack of control of one's bodily functions. That's an unconscious body, not an unconscious soul. HOLD ONNN, but aren't the body and the soul connected, considering that the body (matter) is also energy? :S
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  BC on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:34 pm

The body and soul might be connected, but take notice that the body is in the physical world, our soul is more likely located in the 2nd domain. So even through the energy is connected, they can still be differentiated. The body cells and brain etc maybe have a concious of their own, but they are still generally manipulated by you. Your soul still controls what they will do where they will go.

But then again, without the help of these body cells, one cannot be a defined person to develop the inner self.

Rocks/books can be energy and info, but i doubt that they have conciousness bah, they are more like a database of information that has accumulated, to form what it is, a rock. The spilting of the rock will crack the database into separate, unqiue data bases. A dead man cannot be conscious too, although it does have imprints in our memories, but these memories are abstract burdens that we use to dwell in the past. We must survive in the present, and not to be bothered by egotistic things such as the past. The dead man cannot think, it cannot meditate, it cant go and grope the money It has earned when it was alive. Now the dead body is a mere diminishing database, the energy being recycled, and used elsewhere.

Elsewhere, for the mysterious uses of the Supreme.

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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  hen on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:47 pm

Well, I was thinking about something. You guys are all linking consciousness to life, but think of this concept that ms kay said a few times before: life is expressed in vibration.

now from my experience, most of the time objects around us don't move at all on their own, unless designed to do so. So in this case, we can say that these objects have no life.

An interesting conclusion I came up with: we are in the physical realm. Our souls, which are likely in the quantum realm, manifest themselves in the physical by tying themselves to matter, objects, in the physical domain. Things such as rock are then "unused/unoccupied" objects, and thus lack properties of souls, and have no consciousness.

interesting theory, but there isn't much solid supporting information backing it.
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Luoh on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:53 pm

haha
this question does have something to do with my question... Very Happy

anyways, when a person is dead, i don't think the conscious actually "goes away". It is retained, just not in the dead person's body. It is sent to the supreme being, or the pool where everything goes to.

I believe that when a person has died, his consciousness is sent to three places. things around us, the supreme being, and into a pool where we originated. Through here, our consciousness is then transferred to other people, through reincarnation. Therefore, i think that the consciousness is still there, just not in the dead person, but going to other places

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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  Andy.S on Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:21 pm

When a rock is chopped in two, I guess the consciousness is split, although the two halves may still retain a connection?

Hmm...If consciousness could split into two... will both of the consciousness be identical? On a second thought, if consciousness are present in everything, is it universally "identical" among others, or does each matter have unique consciousness because they emit different frequencies of energy?

Also, could we be able to mold two different matters into one single advanced Consciousness?
Take Fiona's T-I for an example; we take basic components like metal and other elements to combine them into a calculator. The once simple waves of energy are now morphed and synthesized with something else to produce a more complex wave of energy frequency. Assuming that whatever we discussed is correct, then would this T-I calculator develop a stronger or advanced consciousness then it once was? And when it splits into two, would the pieces go back into their more primal basic energy patterns?


A dead man cannot be conscious too, although it does have imprints in our memories, but these memories are abstract burdens that we use to dwell in the past. We must survive in the present, and not to be bothered by egotistic things such as the past.

Very interesting, I like your counter-point against the other forumers xD What you say hints that not all things have consciousness,. Dead people are no longer living, meaning the soul have left to somewhere else, leaving its empty shell to rot. Is this likely though? Dosen't decomposing bodies give off energy too? Or does this consciousness energy only apply to the living or soul-bounded matter?

Oh wait, looks like Hen Ben just answered the question before I even posted:

life is expressed in vibration....
now from my experience, most of the time objects around us don't move at all on their own, unless designed to do so. So in this case, we can say that these objects have no life.

What an interesting turn of events! Almost every guy seems to say that consciousness is not in everything while girls tend to say the opposite! YAOW ! O.O
And Henning, are you suggesting that anything that moves/grow/changes phsycially on its own is possesed by a soul? Does this mean unmoving things are still able to become possessed by a soul to gain consciousness? And does the fact of having souls mean you have consciousness and life?

What do you think people?
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Re: Availability of Consciousness

Post  proey on Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:28 pm

LOLLL ANDY "YAOW" Very Happy so funny.

Anyways, Henning has a good point Razz. It makes sense, but I still do have one question-- in what realm does consciousness exist? Consider that rock we keep talking about. If it exists in the pysical realm, then does it exist in the quantum realm as well? Is this like the 5th dimension or something--each energy exists in a different realm, yet all seem to coexist through our perceptive eyes? :S.
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