Transcending Death

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Transcending Death

Post  joannneee on Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:36 pm

Hi guys!

So as you can see, my topic is death (it may sound macabre, but it's really not, lol.) What I want to ask is whether or not we have the ability to transcend Death. As we often see, people fear death. Some people faint when they think they're shot - there also also those people that have gone through NDEs (or Near Death Experiences), and often find themselves changed for life. They find out what's on the other side of the door, and they are more able to attain tranquility after their experience. So what I want to ask is that does understanding Death give us the ability to not fear death? If so, then is not fearing Death transcending death? Do you think not fearing Death is the only way to Transcend death? And why does not Fearing death allow you to do so?

I actually have a list of questions that I got from my freewrite, so I'll post them all up and see where we go from there. Very Happy

What is Death, in the spiritual sense? Is there a possibility to Transcend Death? If there is, then what is Transcending Death? Is it not fearing Death, and accepting Death as a natural process in life? If so, why do we fear dying? Then is Transcending Death transcending fear? Or Transcending the concept of Death itself?

I hope you guys have fun! Very Happy
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=89904
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=206328
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/buddhism/TJJQGFQR4H79EL49S#lastPost


Last edited by joannneee on Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:53 pm; edited 8 times in total
avatar
joannneee

Posts : 57
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  hen on Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:40 pm

Here's my view on this matter (put simply and concisely.)

Death is the expiration of our physical manifestation. Our spirit remains intact.

Unless there is a method to attain immortality, you can't transcend death physically. You can only do it spiritually and mentally, by accepting death instead of fearing it. It is, after all, inevitable, and an important part of our life cycle.
avatar
hen

Posts : 80
Join date : 2009-05-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  shawanne on Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:58 pm

Death?

...Oh, man, I've had too many weird readings of macabre books--and South Park Very Happy--to get a logical grip on it. But I'll try. XD;

Death is...well...we just die. Physically, that is. Our physical bodies can rot and decompose and stuff but our soul still remains--where it goes after that, I'm not entirely sure. . .except that it DOES go somewhere, maybe into some other kind of organism, or things of that sort. Nobody can escape death, but if we accept it with grace we might as well be un-dead; that is, we have overcome the fear of death [and is this a natural thing, for humans? I'm still unsure about that] and entered a spiritual domain that is composed of energy. After we die, we, our soul, as atoms and particles of energy, are then transferred elsewhere.

...Uh, yeah. I guess that's all I can say atm, will check back later ^^~
avatar
shawanne

Posts : 66
Join date : 2009-05-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Vicky on Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:11 pm

Hi Joey!

Interesting topic you have here! SO…ON WITH IT!


What is Death, in the spiritual sense? Is there a possibility to Transcend Death? If there is, then what is Transcending Death? Is it not fearing Death, and accepting Death as a natural process in life? If so, why do we fear dying? Then is Transcending Death transcending fear? Or Transcending the concept of Death itself?


In spiritual sense, there is no death. Death is merely a term created by the ego mind out for fear of “no longer existing.” By this I mean that the ego mind itself is no longer “itself” anymore. I believe that when we “die,” the energy that has congregated to “create us” do not just disappear. Rather, as they are all part of the “universal energy soup,” they go back to that soup, pair up with other energies, and “form” another individual. You see, the energy doesn’t die, but when the specific combination of the energy that makes you up separates, your ego mind dies. It is no longer the “I” that it has come to name itself.

Transcending death…Well, I think that we can transcend death in that we can stop fearing it. We can try to tame our ego minds to lessen this fear for “death.” As I’ve mentioned before, I think that the ego mind what creates the illusion of death. Well, in a sense, it is not an illusion, because that “specific” ego mind does die because it is no longer that particular ego mind. But looking at the issue in a different, our ego minds don’t necessarily die; they just join with other ego minds to create new ones.

I think transcending death means transcending both the concept of death and the fear that the concept brings along. Because the ego mind what creates the illusion of “death,” then in order to transcend death, don’t we have to make sure that the ego mind doesn’t keep on going like, “OMG. I don’t wanna die like this. Yeah, I’m too young to die.” Therefore, as the ego mind is also the source of fear and paranoia, transcending death encompasses both the act of relenting the concept of death and letting go of the fear.
avatar
Vicky

Posts : 60
Join date : 2009-05-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  ivy on Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:52 pm

okayy thats a whole list of questions.
i dont think death means anything in the spiritual sense. we simply fear it because we don't know what it is. wait, actually then that means death is part of the New, because we have no idea what it is thus we are afraid of facing it. in order to transcend death, all we need to do is embrace the new and accept the fact that we die some day. (sorry but i feel the need to be sarcastic haha)
i suppose we fear death because we are unable to move on. like what osho or tolle, memory mess up for the minute Razz, has said, we like the old, so we don't want the new for we have no idea what holds before us. i dont think that anyone has ever come back from death and describe what has happened right? even the NDEs are simply experiences, thus we are unable to know what it really is to be dead.
avatar
ivy

Posts : 50
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  soph on Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:36 am

hihihi alien

Firstly, is it possible to "understand death?"

And in order to answer that question, we would need to define what exactly death is. Personally, I would like to think that death is just another experience in life. The same as eating, drinking, sleeping. But I cant deny the fact that I am afraid of dying. Why are people afraid of dying? Because they are entering into the unknown and it is not somehting that they have control over. We have no say or power in decideing when we die or how we die. None of it is in our hands, and as we have that natural sense of fear for the unknown, we are therefore afraid of dying. And also because we are so reliant on the worldly goods and the material objects of this world, we are afraid to leave them behind. Because when one dies, they cannot take anything with them. And quite frankly, we cannot imagine a life without material objects because they are EVERYWHERE in our lives and DOMINATE every part of our daily living. And as we cannot imagine living without the noodles, coke, toothbrushes, towels, shoes, clothes, contacts etc.etc.etc. that we depend on for everyday life, there is a natural feat that arises in us that tells us that it is not possible to be apart from these things. But when we die, we cant take any of this with us, therefore we fear losing what is familiar and known to us because we are stepping into another realm, the realm of the unknown.

Transcending death? If by that you mean to not fear death as much, then i think it is possible. But if you are talking about not dying at all... erm yea, you get what I'm saying right? Its not possible because we dont see thousand year old vampires walking around on the streets and sitting next to you on the bus to dt... =.=
I think in order for people to not fear death as much, we need to learn to detach ourselves from what is familiar to us. Whether it is our family, friends, or the material things that we rely on. I think we need to learn to not be so reliant on these things and to learn that all things will come and go because we are constantly shaping our own worlds and creating and destroying things. We cannot expect things to remain the same for the next 10 year, or even 10 minuets. A LOT can happen within 10 minuets. Thus, we cannot expect to be able to cling onto things for our entire lives, because things, people, come and go and we are not in control of everything. Therefore we need to learn to detach and not be so reliance on these things. By that I do not mean that we should all start living on the streets, away from family and friends; or isolate ourselves so that we dont have to talk to anyone; or starve to death or anything. But to fully comprehend and learn the concepts that things change and that nothing is permanent, therefore living in the NOW is important and is key to the transcent of death.

I hope I answered some of your questions... affraid
avatar
soph

Posts : 28
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  kathy on Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:00 pm

DUDE! i like talking about death..idk why lol IM NOT EMO I SWEAR, its just interesting because ppl usually talk about living and how to do it but no one really mentions death.

What is Death, in the spiritual sense? Is there a possibility to Transcend Death? If there is, then what is Transcending Death? Is it not fearing Death, and accepting Death as a natural process in life? If so, why do we fear dying? Then is Transcending Death transcending fear? Or Transcending the concept of Death itself?

first of all, sophia asked if it is possible ot understand death?
well i think it is not possible to understand death, well at least completely, no one REALLY knows what it feels like until they experience things for themselves because everyone has different reactions and therefore, have their own response. and because after one dies, the person can not come back to life and explain things to people, i perosnally dont think understanding death is possible.

ya know how in a lot of movies ppl are like "you are already dead to me" to teh ppl they hate? well i think this means like they just dont understand the other person. death in teh spiritual sense could be meaningless in life...not having a goal or not able to live life, because when one just lives in a routine without experiencing and having spontaneous events happen, one lives like a robot, like a machine with no life -- death. transcending death i think may just be realizing how to live and what one is living for. since one can't understand death, one can understand life and transcend death. once one understands living, then there is life and meaning to it. Maybe some people fear dying because they have no yet finished what they wanted to achieve in life or their ultimate goal.
avatar
kathy

Posts : 33
Join date : 2009-05-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Angela on Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:18 pm

Joanne wrote:What is Death, in the spiritual sense? Is there a possibility to Transcend Death? If there is, then what is Transcending Death? Is it not fearing Death, and accepting Death as a natural process in life? If so, why do we fear dying? Then is Transcending Death transcending fear? Or Transcending the concept of Death itself?

Heyyyy.

Perhaps this topic relates to Luoh’s topic. We are made up of energy and our energies are constantly intermingling with the energies from other people and our surrounding. When we “die,” our energies are transformed because energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Therefore, I don’t think there is a complete death – where our existence completely disappears. We do not survive in the physical domain but we are still a part of the Universal Being.

Hm….transcending death. I think it is more of not reacting to it with our ego minds which creates fear. Just like when we transcend physical boundaries, we are allowing our channels of intuition to open up and allow our Being to bond with the Universe. Our ego mind is not there to inhibit us from expericing essence. Our Beings are dominating and taking control. Fearing death….perhaps it arises from the ego mind. The ego mind is afraid of the unknown therefore it creates fear. It does not like the unknown and intangible

Hey on a sidenote, stepping into the world of death is kind of like stepping into the world of the unknown. Yet, can we possibly transcend death? Just as you meniotned, death is a natural process in life. It is an ever-going cycle. Therefore, we are bound to experincience this stage in Nature’s cycle. SO, I think that we can learn to accept death as a natural process and to not let the fear overhwlem us. Yet we cannot escpae it!

Yupp! Hope that made sense!! Cool Very Happy
avatar
Angela

Posts : 45
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  joannneee on Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:34 pm

Wow, I've gotten many very, very insightful responses from you lot, so thanks for all the replies! In response to all of you:

Henning: Hmm, wow, that's a very direct way to put it, and I think that's quite on the mark when we talk about physical death. However, in what ways can we accept death? Does going through a NDE mean that we've already transcended death? And why is it so hard for us to accept death, if its a natural process?

Shawanne: This reminds me of Anita's topic - whether or not something can last forever. Do our souls last forever? And IS accepting death a natural thing for us? What do you think? If accepting isn't natural, then why do we resist?

Vick: Hey Vick! Very Happy I understand where you're coming from - our souls are recombinations, and they're always "recycled", in a way, to form new souls. Your ego-mind dies when your combination of energy scatters, but the energy remains as merely the fundamental parts of what makes us US.

Oh, do you mean that the ego-mind can also be remade? Just like how the energy is reformed, the ego-mind is made out of that energy, and thus it is reformed as well? To transcend death, it would require us to quit fearing death, right? Where does the fundamental fear of death originate from? Does that mean we can somehow quench that fear? I would like to believe that those who meditate can indeed transcend the fear of death - and why is it that they can do that?

Ivy: Death doesn't mean anything spiritually - my comments to Vick, I think, agree with what you say. Descriptions of NDEs are often stereotypically a sense of calmness, a lulling sensation that promises the relief from pain. Is that what the NDE's non-fear of death originates from? Or do you think even the NDE-ers still feel fear?

Do you think someone can possibly completely embrace death, if it is what you believe will lead one to Transcend death?

Soph: Hey Soph! Very Happy

And in order to answer that question, we would need to define what exactly death is. Personally, I would like to think that death is just another experience in life. The same as eating, drinking, sleeping...

And also because we are so reliant on the worldly goods and the material objects of this world, we are afraid to leave them behind. Because when one dies, they cannot take anything with them. And quite frankly, we cannot imagine a life without material objects because they are EVERYWHERE in our lives and DOMINATE every part of our daily living.

Wow, this is a very refreshing view! We are bound by what we wish to keep around us - the people we see, our family, the great foods, culture, life around us. We don't want to leave anything behind, and that's why we're here, trying our darn hardest to survive.

As we live in the now, we realize that indeed every moment is new, every minute is new. But do you think it is possible for us to completely accept Death? Is there any way we can possibly bring us closer to understanding the concept of Death? What is your take on Death? What do you think happens to us when we die?

Kathy: You're not the only one emo here. If I weren't emo, I wouldn't be asking this question.

Jk. Anyway! Very Happy We never talk about death cause sometimes it seems like Karma. You talk about it, it just might... yeah.

For the first part of your response: Do you think Death is different for everyone? There are now people who think understanding death is possible if you can accept everything and there are the people who think understanding death is IMpossible. If you go through it and live to tell about it, do you think THAT would be understanding death? Or do you think death is something else entirely? What do you think death is?

As for your second paragraph, it's also something that I haven't come across yet, a new take on my question!! Do you mean that death in an idea can also be death? If so, perhaps you could read the book American Gods, in which Shawanne recommended me to read a while ago. It would think it connects to what you talk to. The death of a God comes when its believers no longer remember or believe in it, and it reminded me completely of what you wrote.

If having no spontaneity in life means that you are, in a way, "dead", then do you think being completely lively and happy and sponetaneous means that you can possibly understand death? I like the way you say how death can be found and understood by living life. Do you mean that once one person lives a life with no regrets, he will no longer feel the fear associated to death? Do you think that's attainable?

Angela: Heyyy. (lol) I agree with how you say the ego-mind is the one stimulating the fear. But why is there fear? Because we merely fear the concept of change? Or is there a deeper reason that makes us think that dying is the MOST scariest? Do you think bravery can transcend death? People who are unafraid to die risk their lives - is that transcending death? Do you think it's merely addiction to the feel of exhiliration, or is it that they accept death?

I also agree with your idea of bonding with the universal being. What we have with the universal being makes us able to understand that we will never, in one sense, die.

We cannot escape death - do you think we all accept it? Do you think it's possible to accept it?


---

Whoo! That's all the responses to the posts as of now. Very Happy Right now I'd like to address one recurring question that's been coming to me through reading many of the posts:

To All:

Someone once told me that we can never stop fearing death. Do you think we can ever stop fearing death? Under what circumstances can it happen? Under what circumstances can't it happen?

If we understood death, would we have the incentive to live?


Have fun and thanks for replying! Smile
avatar
joannneee

Posts : 57
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Andy.S on Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:48 pm

Someone once told me that we can never stop fearing death. Do you think we can ever stop fearing death? Under what circumstances can it happen? Under what circumstances can't it happen?

If we understood death, would we have the incentive to live?

Interesting "friend" you have there. The fear of death is caused by the sheer thought of mystery. Nobody trully understands death because no dead person has come travelled back to tell us. Some with NDE claim that they have seen the afterlife and changed dramatically, but that still does not give any explanation to mind in order to make it feel safe. Remember, the mind vaules surivival highly. Because the mind does not want to risk chances to something it does not understand, the mind creates doubt and fear.

Can we over come it then? Maybe, because death is a concept. It is possible that there is no such thing as death at all. Death is generally explained as the "end" of life. But is it really the end or just the beginning? What if we had Ms.Kay come into class and alter the classes mindset to believe death as the true beginning of life? I bet some people would still remain skeptic while others accept it and no longer fear death. The reason why some remain skeptic and uneasy about death is because they are still unsure whether the example-made-Ms.Kay is telling truth. On the other hand, people that no longer fear death have Ms.Kay to backup their point of view. So yeah, my point is that Death is determined from different perceptions of one's reality/mindset and vulnerability to one's own sense of security.

If we understood death, would we have the incentive to live?
Depends on the truth itself. Regardless, I actually think it might give a new meaning in life. At first the understanding would be in denial. Then it would catch up and become widely applied through the concept of life and everything associated to it
avatar
Andy.S

Posts : 47
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Vicky on Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:13 pm

Hi Joey-anna!



Where does the fundamental fear of death originate from? Does that mean we can somehow quench that fear? I would like to believe that those who meditate can indeed transcend the fear of death - and why is it that they can do that?


Well, I think that the fundamental fear of death originates from our ego mind. The ego mind, which, as you’ve stated in my discussion, is in charge of “ensuring our survival.” Naturally, it would fear death – as death is the worst possible outcome if it does not manage its task. So, how does the ego mind trigger its host to become alert and run away from danger? By implanting an illusion of “death,” the ego mind creates a sense of “You” and “Me” for the individual. The individual no longer thinks in terms of “oneness,” rather, they start to view the world in little fragments.

Yes, I do believe that we can “quench that fear,” as you’ve so eloquently stated. The key to subduing this fear is to diminish the dominance of the ego mind. How do we accomplish this? By letting our Being seep through and by acknowledging the interconnectivity between all things. It also helps to reassure the ego mind that we don’t actually die – our energies merely “separate” and “reincarnate” as different objects. Finally, why is it that people who meditate can ultimately transcend the fear of death? Well, I think this is because people who have spent years meditating start to realize the “oneness” of everything, and have also learned to tame their ego mind. Without the ego mind dominating us, we don’t necessarily feel “threatened” by anything. We, therefore, do not conjure the emotion of fear.

If we understood death, would we have the incentive to live?


This is a good question! I believe that this depends solely on the individual’s personality. If a person is lazy and is unwilling “live fully” even with the knowledge of knowing that they will die, then they probably would have less incentive to “live” if they knew they’ll just end up “reincarnating” as different forms. On the other hand, a person who is passionate and feels like they have a purpose as this “current form” will cherish their life and try to utilize their “purpose.” Nevertheless, I think as long as the ego mind is present – because there is no way we can get rid of it permanently (maybe temporarily when we meditate, but during our “daily lives,” the ego mind is still used) – the incentive to live remains quite robust. So, basically, the incentive to live is always there, just at varying degrees, I guess.
avatar
Vicky

Posts : 60
Join date : 2009-05-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Luoh on Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:14 pm

There is no such thing as "Death" on the spiritual world if you believe in Reincarnation, because when a person dies, they're soul goes back to that pool that everything originates from.

When we reincarnate, as we said, our energies are focused into going to three different places. Therefore, when we die, we don't actually die, but we are just helping others live Very Happy

Luoh

Posts : 33
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  joyceychen on Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:07 pm

yeah, if we think of death just as part of our natural cycle, then it's just another step in life. or...whatever you want to call it Razz
we fear it because we dont know exactly what it's like there, facing death (except those NDE people). death is such a mysterious stage. it basically seems like when we go there, we can't come back, point of no return. so as hen said, we can't transcend death physically, but if we accept that it's part of nature, then it shouldnt be as scary. many of us dont want to die because we dont want to leave behind what we have here. so we know life and everything here is not permanent. the egomind doesnt want to die/give up its control.

okk, not too sure how much of that helped xD but i think we can transcend death mentally by not letting the concept of it rule our lives - stop living in constant fear of it. this hinders you from living life to the fullest because youre worried about this one thing. if we can accept death, it wont matter as much to us and it just some ordinary thing we human beings (and other living things) need to go through. as Thanotopsis said, death is the great equalizer. we arent facing it alone (though the actual timings of each might be different)
avatar
joyceychen

Posts : 83
Join date : 2009-05-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  ivy on Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:11 pm

technically, everyone has fears about the unknown. if one doesn't then that only means the person 神經大條, because no matter how courageous you are, there has got to be a weakness somewhere, somehow. i have no idea what it feels like to be near death, so i have no idea what NDE experiences are. however, according to my analytical brain, which likes to analyze with my twisted logic, being through something once does not mean that the second time will be less terrorizing. we've all been shell-shocked when someone holds the fake cockroach in front of us, but we still panic/scream/shriek (something i did hehe). and the second time does not make it any better. so if we fear death, just exposing ourselves to it once cannot possibly erase our opinionated brain's memories.

i don't think we can stop fearing death, unless the person is determined to die. but that occurs rarely. i still remember reading an article where the author wrote about the story of a determined couple committing suicide; however, when the guy was free falling, he panicked and realized that he was not that into the girl. but i digress afterwards. so basically, determination is somewhat weak. especially when we think about how we will never feel the same as we do now. so, i suppose the only time that one can actually be unafraid of death is under the stimulation of feeling desperation i suppose, but the death must be quick just in case there are any last minute regrets. haha. god im gruesome

here's to your last question:
when we understand death, there might be two reactions. one is when we feel that we should hold onto what we have now, because we now know that death can have that much of an impact on us. that is the more optimistic way of putting it. however, for the pessimistic side, let's just assume that person A will put it this way "if we know what death is, and we are going to die sooner or later, why not just do it now?"
your thread is making me emo -__-
avatar
ivy

Posts : 50
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Angela on Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:32 pm

Joanne wrote:But why is there fear? Because we merely fear the concept of change? Or is there a deeper reason that makes us think that dying is the MOST scariest? Do you think bravery can transcend death? People who are unafraid to die risk their lives - is that transcending death? Do you think it's merely addiction to the feel of exhiliration, or is it that they accept death?

WOW…haha so many questions shooting my way. I shall try to answer them! Very Happy

Fear….WELL. The ego mind is a tool, a tool to enhance survival. Remember the dicussion about how the ego mind possesses its own significance and that it is not compeltely evil? It is what tells us to escape danger and to run for our lives. Just as Vicky previously mentioned on her thread and on my thread, the ego mind constantly refers back to the past because it is known and it is tangible to grasp onto. It previously allowed us to survive, therefore, it wants to refer back to the past continuously because it knows that that way works. Venturing on into the world of the unknown does not ensure survival and what will happen is unknown. We do, indeed, feel uncomfortable with change. Just like when we are experincing something new, we may have a feeling of uncertainty or nervouness, or FEAR of what might happen. The ego mind comes in and starts playing scenerios in our heads of what might happen in the future or the negative things that might happen. But things usually don’t turn out as bad as the ego mind in overdrive puts it, right?

Bravery transcending death? Hm…perhaps bravery is a way to react and deal with the concept of death. As I have mentioned before, we cannot esapce death because we are part of Nature and its natural everlasting cycles. I think dealing with death in a way like this will eliminate the fear that the ego mind creates. We are not allowing the ego mind and its thoughts to dominate and control us. We, instead, possessing unlimited potential, are taking action and reacting to such situation. Change can be brought out through action and therefore we are no longer being stepped down upon by the DEATH.

Joanne wrote:We cannot escape death - do you think we all accept it? Do you think it's possible to accept it?

I think one way or the other people are bound to accept it because it is simply part of Nature’s cycle! Yet, the ego mind does not allow for such an easy acceptance to death. It creates fear and a want to escape death. It wants to survive and dominate. It does not want to enter some unknown state where it cannot hold its power. Therefore, I think it is possible to accept it but the problem arises from how to continually deal with death and not overreact to the thoughts put out by the ego mind. Razz
avatar
Angela

Posts : 45
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Steph C on Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:57 pm

GR I just wrote up my response and my internet died on me. It seems to have transcended death for the time being...

Ha, when I first read your topic, I was expecting like bringing people back from the dead and zombie related things. But it's ok, this is interesting too Smile For one, I think the enlightened beings of their world can transcend death because they have found a way to quiet their ego minds and achieve oneness with the being. Because fearing death, I would presume, is a cultivation of the egomind. Having inner peace might make one learn to accept death as another experience or something. not that I would know for sure, because I've never been there.
Or maybe you don't even need to have inner peace, you might just need the right mindset. Think back to Bryant's Thanatopsis, that tried to get readers to confront their fears, for there is really no need for them. He described it as a part of the life cycle and called it "pleasant sleep." Perhaps adopting this kind of a view point enables one to transcend fear of death.
avatar
Steph C

Posts : 51
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  joannneee on Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:13 pm

Responses Time!

Andy:
Can we over come it then? Maybe, because death is a concept. It is possible that there is no such thing as death at all. Death is generally explained as the "end" of life. But is it really the end or just the beginning? What if we had Ms.Kay come into class and alter the classes mindset to believe death as the true beginning of life? I bet some people would still remain skeptic while others accept it and no longer fear death. The reason why some remain skeptic and uneasy about death is because they are still unsure whether the example-made-Ms.Kay is telling truth. On the other hand, people that no longer fear death have Ms.Kay to backup their point of view. So yeah, my point is that Death is determined from different perceptions of one's reality/mindset and vulnerability to one's own sense of security.

Ohhhh, does this mean that we only transcend the concept of Death? This reminds me of what another person said on another one of the forums:
If you don't fear death, do you think that's transcending death?


No, that would be transcending the fear of death, not death itself. Death, seemingly, doesn't really care wether we fear it or not.
Does this mean that Death is only what it is - Death? I hope you understand what I'm saying, lol. xD

Vicky: Vick-anna! (lol!)

The ego-mind is what controls of fear, according to many of us. If we didn't have the ego-mind, we would accept everything because our bodies would know that the time for its Death.

Also, as we talked about in Lee's forum thread, do you mean that exitence is determined by ourselves? Another thing is also this: Do you think we would have the incentive to live without the ego-mind?

Luoh: Hmm, what do you mean by three other places? Which three other places would there be?

Joyce: Yo!

Both you and Andy highlight the fact that "Death is merely a concept" - and we're going to talk about it later!! Whoo! Lol. Anyway, I recommend you read Andy's response - he talks about many of the concepts that you do, only that he puts it in a way that highlights "perspective." You'll know what I mean when you read it!! Very Happy

Ivy:
You mean we react constantly with the same response to something, even if we know its harmless? I would guess so, but then there's habituation.

As for being unafraid of Death, due to desperation part, we'll get to it later. It's one of my jackpots. xDDD You'll see it in a few days, so I'll refrain from commenting until then.

Angela: Wow, Angela, deep stuff. Very Happy I get what you're saying - through the elimination of fear, we can accept death. But how do we eradicate the fear, other than by realizing that we are all one? Is it possible to do it any other way?

Also, we'll be moving into another topic!! *drumrolls* It pertains to Andy's reply, so I suggest you read it first. Very Happy

Steph C.: This is cooler than zombies. xD

Well no, but other than zombies, hopefully this discussion is still actually interesting, haha.

Your response leads back the fundamentals of our unit: how to quiet the ego-mind? But we aren't going to get into that - yet.

As for having the right mindset, I have to say that its an interesting thought! To change our perception on Death is definitely a way that we can stop our fear of Death. Is it identification with Death?

I also recommend you to read Andy's post - it talks about what you've said here! And the "To All" topic below, I think, is addressing what you're saying! Very Happy


To All:


First things first, Andy's post highlights some of the main things that I want to talk about this time! So I would recommend you reading it before replying! We're about to change the direction of this discussion!

I've garnered a lot from the responses already: the transcending of death, many think, is the transcending of fear. Some say that we fear because we fear change, and I'm sure that is one of the reasons death is so terrifying to us. Some also state that the fear comes from our fight for survival. If we drop the fear, then we would be able to accept that everything would be a continuous cycle. We are rather afraid of the way we'll die, more so than the concept of death itself.

A person on my other forum wrote:

people do not so much fear dying as fear the way thery might die.

True or False?

I've also heard many of you say that the essence that we come to is continuous, that we continue to appear on this dimension over and over again, or even to other dimensions. Then why are we always stuck on this phase in life?

Another concept that I want to introduce now that I think of it, is whether or not Death is merely a concept that we dubb to a point of change in our lives. Do you think Death is a beginning, an end, or a continuous process? Why? Can death even be a relief from life?

Also...

Death is a lack of life. All we humans know since we are born is life.

The philosopher Sir William Hamilton of the 9th Baronet stated it best:

"The human being can only comprehend that with which it can associate."

We have no way to know death. Now, it may be possible to transcend death; it may be possible that we exist after death. I do not believe either of these things, and imagine death to be unconsciousness for infinity.

That phrase is paradoxical and it is unsettling. An unconscious human being, whether suffering from a concussion or simply sleeping, does not have a concept of time, and therefore wakes as though no time had passed.

What I believe death to be is an unending unconsciousness. Unending instantaneousness...

I'd rather not think about it.

One thing I thought about when I read this response was Is death something that is bound by the concept of time? As the person said above, the lack of the concept of time is when we go in sleep or unconsciousness, the diorientation that we feel. Is death like sleep, where we are gone to the world around us? Do you think Death begins and ends in an instant?

What is the concept that is Death?

Is time what makes us fear Death?


Last edited by joannneee on Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
joannneee

Posts : 57
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Vicky on Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:42 pm

Hi Maryland Jones! *hides* Very Happy

Do you think we would have the incentive to live without the ego-mind?


Yes, I believe that we would still have the incentive to live without the ego mind. First of all, I’m guessing the “incentive” that the ego mind gives us for living is to “gain more wealth and popularity” right? It wants us to live because it wants to gain more of its “greedy pleasure.” In this sense, they way that you phrased your question made it sound like as if you’re insinuating that “incentives” are negative? I believe that we do have the motivation to live even if, hypothetically, the ego mind were to vanish. This is because, as we’ve discussed, our Being is what is conscious of its connection to the Universal Being. It, therefore, understands its importance. Thus, wouldn’t it strive to get the individual to perform tasks that will be beneficial to other parts of the Universal Being? Shouldn’t this, then, be considered a sort of incentive? Also, without the ego mind disposing fears about “death” into us, wouldn’t the Being, in a way, be more motivated to “live” since it knows that it will not die?



people do not so much fear dying as fear the way they might die.


Yes, I do agree with this statement. Often times, when we think about death, we end up thinking about the ways that we might die. Somehow the concept of death – no longer “existing” in this world is overshadowed by the speculations of how we may “vanish.” We often times care more about the pain that is brought about by the different ways we might die. Will we die in a car accident , or will we die of cancer? How much will it hurt, if we were in a car accident? Would our skulls be lacerated severely? What if we die of cancer? Does radiation or chemotherapy hurt? Will we lose our hair? See, it all comes down to the discomfort/ the loss of face/ the pain that leads to death that we care about. Why does this happen though? Is it because the ego mind doesn’t have experience with death, so it doesn’t know what emotions or thoughts to associate it with? Is it because it feels out of control, so instead of focusing on the concept of dying itself, it puts its attention on the scenarios that may lead to death? It knows how it looks/feels like to have cancer/be in a car accident because it has seen many instances of these in the past.


Last edited by Vicky on Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Vicky

Posts : 60
Join date : 2009-05-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Luoh on Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:04 pm

Interesting question Very Happy
I guess i have some bias because of my research in reincarnation, but i believe that Death is a continuous process. According to the idea of reincarnation, death is something that begins a new life. In this way, death is actualy [/bA beginning, end, and continuous process]

Death does seem to be something bound by time. Why do people write wills? They write wills because they want their belongings to go to the people that they cared about, but also because they are scared that they might be dieing. This makes me believe that the fear of death is bound by time, because when you find out about death, there is only so much time left, and you begin to be scared of the time.

I also think this because as youngsters like we are, much of the time, we don't think much about death, mortality, that stuff. We are all young, healthy (hopefully) Very Happy. But once we get older, we do begin to think about death, or at least, with a higher frequency then we did before. This also makes me believe that time binds death.

To joanne: By the three places, i mean, to what needs energy, to nature, and to the place where everything orginates, which is the answer to my question (i believe)

Luoh

Posts : 33
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  ivy on Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:18 pm

haha. im very glad to know that i actually hit jackpot...interesting enough. we'll see Very Happy

about habituation. the textbook is referring to some stimulus, not all. when there is something that has been etched in your mind, don't you still fear it even though you've grown to know that it is. well, that is the situation for me at the very least. i think even though habituation might cause some stimulus to be ignored, but that is mainly limiting to stimuluses that do not affect us. so, i suppose fear for death can never be really habituated to

i'd say true to what the person on your other forum has said. people fear how they are going to die. just like all those gruesome conversations that we have regarding how do you want to die. i suppose we are simply afraid of how we are going to die. however, people still fear death, because they still fear the unknown. well, at least i fear the unknown, im not really sure if other people fear the way they die or death itself.

well, every end is a new beginning, so most likely death is just a new chapter in our lives that we might never have the knowledge about until we are dead.
avatar
ivy

Posts : 50
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  joyceychen on Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:40 pm

wow that's a lot of stuff there joey!

but yeah, oftentimes, i have wondered if death is, as the person you quoted describes, infinite unconsciousness. it's kinda scary to think of never waking up. what exactly happens in our minds during those periods of unconsciousness? are you willing to leave your loved ones? and if you dont believe in afterlife, then you might never see them again! who wants that?? all this mystery and unknown sturs fear as we continue to think about it. some chose to try to ignore these feelings and compensate by "living as if there's no tomorrow//living life to its fullest," not to let such worries get in the way of our lives. or you can adopt those mottos if you ARE afraid of dying and leaving this life behind.

and yeah, i think the infinite ways a person can die is just as scary as the concept of infinite unconsciousness. we all hope for a painless death (so then why do people commit suicide by burning themselves or whatever? why not just overdose yourself with sleeping pills or burn the carbon monoxide thing? then again, there are those that LIKE to inflict pain upon themselves....) so for here, it's more like we fear the pain because how are we to know how we're going to die? (unless you commit suicide, then you can choose) what's the level of pain you feel before you "pass out" and die? such feelings and questions that can't be answered! more unknown, oh no! scary! ahhhh.
hahah, yeah

i dont know when i'll ever be ready for death. when will i be able to detach myself from these worldly objects? because death is actuall quite serious. because we know so little of it

ok, i feel like i've gone in circles, not exactly getting new answers, so i think i'll stop here. i'm just like repeating the fear of death and stuff Razz
avatar
joyceychen

Posts : 83
Join date : 2009-05-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Kenny on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:29 am

Oh hey i just remembered something, a funny little thought I used to entertain as a kid,what if life and death belonged to two different realms, and in the realm of death, living is essentially the same thing as dying over here in our world, so like, you'd die here and then be born in the dead world, and then you'd be dying there for a bit and eventually you live and end up here again. just a funny little thought Very Happy

Kenny

Posts : 78
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Angela on Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:04 am

Joanne wrote:people do not so much fear dying as fear the way thery might die.

Perhaps this is the ego mind chipping in again. As previously mentioned, the ego mind creates fear even though we know it is part of Nature’s cycle. Plants germinate, grow, and then eventually wilt and die, and that continuous cycle is happening all around us. Perhaps it wasn’t meant to bring fear in the first place. The ego mind, as previously talked about in your first discussion, fears unknown. Therefore, I picture it as playing every possible scenerio of what might happen in the future. It is where the “fear the way they might die” comes in. There are so many possible ways to die and the ego mind seems to picture and put the individual in every circumstance. This creates fear….”what if this happens to me one day?” “im going on an airplane..will what I thought about happen to me?” I think is because of these thoughts that cause people to fear death. It is perhaps an overreaction to thought. Getting dominated by thought and what might happen in the future when one is still living in the now.

Joanne wrote:Do you think Death is a beginning, an end, or a continuous process? Why? Can death even be a relief from life?

I think in a sense it is a mix of all. End…in a physical sense. But our spiritual Beings travel on…in a continuous process. Im not so sure about whether death can be a relief from life. It seems, though, that appears to be the case. It seems as if people are not satisfied or are tired of their life, they want to end it…perhaps thinking that it will be better? Hm….?

Joanne wrote:Is time what makes us fear Death?
Time….i think is created by our ego mind. Something that provides order and tangibility to something that is abstract and actually intangible. Humans are constantly trapped by time…maybe even inhibited from unlimited growth due to the reason of “not enough time!” I think it is because we allow time to control us that we fear Death. Time seems to be what allows us to do things. If pretend we say that every human being only has 5 more years in their life…..the ego mind would start shooting and everything would turn into choas. I’ll think about it so more. That’s a really intersting question, though!
avatar
Angela

Posts : 45
Join date : 2009-05-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  kathy on Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:04 pm

For the first part of your response: Do you think Death is different for everyone? There are now people who think understanding death is possible if you can accept everything and there are the people who think understanding death is IMpossible. If you go through it and live to tell about it, do you think THAT would be understanding death? Or do you think death is something else entirely? What do you think death is?

Do you mean that once one person lives a life with no regrets, he will no longer feel the fear associated to death? Do you think that's attainable?

Someone once told me that we can never stop fearing death. Do you think we can ever stop fearing death? Under what circumstances can it happen? Under what circumstances can't it happen?

I think because everyone has a unique and different being and because everyone lives a different life, maybe everyone would experience a different death. i mena of course there are different ways of dying but i mean the actual feelings and emotions associated with death. hmm i still dont think there is a way to UNDERSTAND or KNOW what death is until you actually experience it, i mean ppl can have theories and things but there is no way to prove it. I think death is just not being able to live, dying before you have accomplished your goal and fate in life, leaving wihtout finishing living. Maybe once a person can live with no regrets, there would be nothing to fear because then one is content and would not mind if they were to die because they have experienced LIFE for themselves, not by other peoples observations but from their own essence and being.

I believe it is possible to stop fearing death because death could have different meanings to different people. once one is content with the life they lived and has experienced what they came to experience, why fear ending it? once one is one with everything and has found their own being, fearing would not tie in with death.
avatar
kathy

Posts : 33
Join date : 2009-05-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  joyceychen on Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:56 pm

Kenny wrote:Oh hey i just remembered something, a funny little thought I used to entertain as a kid,what if life and death belonged to two different realms, and in the realm of death, living is essentially the same thing as dying over here in our world, so like, you'd die here and then be born in the dead world, and then you'd be dying there for a bit and eventually you live and end up here again. just a funny little thought Very Happy
ahahah that's such a cute thought kenneth!!
avatar
joyceychen

Posts : 83
Join date : 2009-05-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transcending Death

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum