Do You Have a CHOICE?

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Re: Do You Have a CHOICE?

Post  Andy.S on Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:54 pm

Kenny

Is the fate of every acorn to become an oak? No. The majority just go to feed the earth and creatiures upon it. We are the same. The fate of Man and human types is one thing but every person walking on the earth doesn't have the fate of trancendedent conscious humanity. Only a few are capable of the fate of humanity just like only a rare few acorns become an oak. Like the acorn, most just feed the earth in cycles on what Buddhism calls the "wheel of samsara."

Woah, thats new. But which factor works here? Fate or Freewill? Does everyone have some sort of blueprint of their lives? What you seem to imply is that some people are capable to transcend, so is it fate that allows only a handful of individuals to become "great oaks" or did these indivduals willingly become oaks? Or do both factors work along each other? For an example, one acorn is capable of being an oak, but fate takes that chance away when a chipmunk comes over and eats it up. In a reverse example, one acorn is not capable of being an oak, but uses its own intuition to become anyways?
Strange isn't it? But then again, I guess what I am saying that both fate and freewill exists...but one can dominate the other if one is stronger.
I hope this means I am able to become a "great oak" when I get older xD


The choice is to be one of the few or one of the many.
Interesting. The connection I get from you is that one of the few is related to "free will" while one of the many is "fate".
I am not sure, but what really counts as fate? If i dropped a pencil by accident, was that FATE? If a hurricane wreaks havoc on Taiwan...is that also fate? From what I see, anything that cannot be trully explained goes under the name fate...and I can say the same to freewill. How do we know the difference between fate and freewill? Think of the acorn example....did the acorn want to be an oak? Or was it fate that made it not want to be an oak? In human terms...what if it was my fate to not believe in fate?
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Re: Do You Have a CHOICE?

Post  Steph C on Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:07 pm

What is luck? Is it from fate? If we have freewill, why do we get things that we do not make the choice to receive or that we do not ask for or work for? Why do people get things they "don't deserve?"

Thank you for giving me a chance to present my definition of luck, because I feel that it is used incorrectly way too much. When someone pours out their sweat-and-blood- hard work to achieve something, their achievement is not "lucky." It seems really straightfoward, but COUNTLESS times I have heard things along the lines of, "Hey, you know how to cook, you're so lucky." Ok, maybe that's not such a good example, but I just want to point out that it is both incorrect and rude to attribute one person's forte entriely to luck. I realize that many things leading up to the achievement may be out of "luck," for example having the opportunity to learn to cook because your friend is a chef. In the end, however, that one has consciously decided to pick up and hone a skill requires diligence and perserverance, not "luck." Then what really IS luck? I'd consider winning the lottery as lucky, where everyone has more or less and equal chance, and intense work was not put into earning or purchasing the lottery ticket. These kinds of things are lucky. I'm open to opinion on this definition of luck, but I hope that we all remember to think before we rashly label someone's achievement "lucky."

As for freewill... I think that on top of all the things that we recieve (even if we do not want them), or "do not deserve," our free will enables to do what we want with the situation we are placed in. Life is unpredictable, and while we can try to shift our lives in particular paths, one can never expect things to go smoothly. I've only been on the planet for 16 years and I know plans rarely go uninterrupted. However, with whatever cards we are dealt, we have the choice (free will) to play them as we please.
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Re: Do You Have a CHOICE?

Post  Kenny on Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:42 pm

Nick_A wrote:Kenny

Is the fate of every acorn to become an oak? No. The majority just go to feed the earth and creatiures upon it. We are the same. The fate of Man and human types is one thing but every person walking on the earth doesn't have the fate of trancendedent conscious humanity. Only a few are capable of the fate of humanity just like only a rare few acorns become an oak. Like the acorn, most just feed the earth in cycles on what Buddhism calls the "wheel of samsara."

Sorry, I'm kind of tired right now xD
So um, what fate are we talking about here? Or actually, can you elaborate on what you mean here? I don't really understand what John said either so it'd be much appreciated!

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Re: Do You Have a CHOICE?

Post  Vincent_Lee on Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:54 pm

It seems to me that Nick is saying that not all of us are able to achieve our destiny, a word I think can replace fate here. Perhaps that makes it a bit more clear now? Not all of us are able to realize our destiny, our full potential, is what it seems like he's saying here. Similar to the idea that most people are average, I'd assume.

Nick, if I'm completely off mark here, don't kick my ass. xD

...Even though I have a good feeling that my interpretation is more or less accurate.













And to everyone... "No fate but what we make"
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Re: Do You Have a CHOICE?

Post  Kenny on Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:05 pm

Vincent_Lee wrote:It seems to me that Nick is saying that not all of us are able to achieve our destiny, a word I think can replace fate here. Perhaps that makes it a bit more clear now? Not all of us are able to realize our destiny, our full potential, is what it seems like he's saying here. Similar to the idea that most people are average, I'd assume.

Nick, if I'm completely off mark here, don't kick my ass. xD

I think you got it right, clears things up, thanks.
Although, if that's the case, what a bleak and lonely world we live in :/

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Re: Do You Have a CHOICE?

Post  John on Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:39 pm

Andy.S wrote:

The choice is to be one of the few or one of the many.

Interesting. The connection I get from you is that one of the few is related to "free will" while one of the many is "fate".
I am not sure, but what really counts as fate? If i dropped a pencil by accident, was that FATE? If a hurricane wreaks havoc on Taiwan...is that also fate? From what I see, anything that cannot be trully explained goes under the name fate...and I can say the same to freewill. How do we know the difference between fate and freewill? Think of the acorn example....did the acorn want to be an oak? Or was it fate that made it not want to be an oak? In human terms...what if it was my fate to not believe in fate?

Yes the answer to your question is desire.

I have a little story about an acorn. It fell from a tree like many others. It was blown under a log where it was damp. Most of the other acorns were in the sunshine were they felt good. They were happy and consumed by the enviorment. Our little friend under the log will actually start to dream. It will stimulate its desire to be more that it is. That energy will reach out for the moisture around it. It will push through its shell, extend itself into the ground, grow rooths and eventually become a great oak tree.

All form has awareness. That awareness is connected to a grander understanding. What looked like an ill fated set of circumstances was transformed into a grand process for our little friend. The only difference between it and others like itself, those with the potential to become an oak tree, was that it dreamed and found the energy to become more.

These concepts are something we either understand or we do not. Much of it relates to our potentials. Yet all things serve the greater good, and there are only some who can choose. This grand scheme is a process we are all involved with, on the other side.

BTW those without the knowledge are the ones who can not choose, a different service.

John
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Re: Do You Have a CHOICE?

Post  Emily Y on Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:17 pm

WOW...an intense discussion about acorns Wink
um...so is the acorn that becomes an oak following its destiny? is it fate that it should be different from the other acorns that are eaten? or are the ones that are eaten following fate and the acorn chooses to become something greater? so is that saying that we all have our own destiny but we CAN CHOOSE to follow it or believe it? or is it all fate? fate as in our choices are predetermined - not no choice at all...
Andy reminded me of something else...what about those things that we can't control or make a choice about...like a hurricane...what controls those things?
Lee: so now destiny is also our unlimited human potential? doesn't that sound odd seeing as our destiny supposedly restricts us?
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Re: Do You Have a CHOICE?

Post  Nick_A on Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:04 pm

Emily Y wrote:WOW...an intense discussion about acorns Wink
um...so is the acorn that becomes an oak following its destiny? is it fate that it should be different from the other acorns that are eaten? or are the ones that are eaten following fate and the acorn chooses to become something greater? so is that saying that we all have our own destiny but we CAN CHOOSE to follow it or believe it? or is it all fate? fate as in our choices are predetermined - not no choice at all...
Andy reminded me of something else...what about those things that we can't control or make a choice about...like a hurricane...what controls those things?
Lee: so now destiny is also our unlimited human potential? doesn't that sound odd seeing as our destiny supposedly restricts us?

Fate can be defined as the evolutionary potential of something. A dish has no fate since it is what it is. An acorn has the potential to become an oak so that is its fate. But as we know only a very few reach the fate of an acorn which is an oak. Only a few of the seed of man within man on earth acquire the fate of man which is to become part of conscious humanity

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