Science and God

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Re: Science and God

Post  Bob on Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:20 am

I could sit here, and write a whole line of five dollar words, but you are having delusions of granduer. When you speak to this god of many religions, does it speak back? By, telling you to do this, or that? I just hope it does not tell you to hurt people, and especially little children. Bottom line, you can sit here, and quote pages to me, but you need help from a psychiatrist. They cost money, but they will give you good mental health, and help you to "wake up, and smell the coffee," you know that consciuos you keep referring to? Analyticaly a conscious is our awarness of ourselves, and all the things that we think, feel and do. Are you o.k. with this conscious. I can bring in Freud from my psychology course, and book, too. Bottom line is if this "god is telling you to things" please go to a psychiatrist, or, and even a psychologist. Pleae don't let it tell you to hurt people, and, or little children!
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Re: Science and God

Post  Bob on Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:54 am

After reading from my psychology book, and readng some text. You need help, and I mean help for what I'm not sure, but you need help! Reading all these pages from my book, and it is saying a lot about the type of person, you are, and its not pretty. Man, you need help! Please go to a Doctor of psychiatry, or psychology. Really, I mean it. You are saying this, and that, you need help!
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Re: Science and God

Post  Bob on Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:17 am

Hello,
If Steve, or Nick A use: peer pressure; implements a physically demanding schedule; creates an atmosphere of tension, and uncertainty; uses unique lingo; gives psychological rewards for compliance. Using peer pressure: you are socially remove; committed upfront to listen, and not leave; short time in between breaks; pressured not take drugs, smoke, or even eat; then continued to return after this is done. Implementing a physically demanding schedule: meetings go on for several hours, or run late into the night; no time to reflect on what is being said. Creating an atmosphere of tension, and uncertainty: being put on the spot; share intimate information with a stranger; see chastising, or fear being next. Using unique limbo: meanings only to "insiders." Giving psychological rewards form compliance: extremely serious until you are converted; then humor, and celebration; used as symbols of life changing experience. Be careful if this happens to you tell Ms. Kay!
This is just part of what my book states, TELL MS.KAY if this happens to you. You already meet some of this criteria, as you are sitting alone at a computer screen, and there is more, but I have to go.
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Re: Science and God

Post  Nick_A on Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:11 pm

Hi Bob

I say this as a friend. I have the strong impression that you are fighting something because of the needless way you fight me. It could even be drug related. This is not bad, evil, or anything else. All it means is that something is bothering you and has made you hyper in defense. It isn't necessary and is only getting in your way.

I really hope at some point you have a heart to heart talk with an impartial friend that can allow you to come down from these defenses. If drugs are a part, well that can be worked on as well.

I used to drink far too much and know how it can distort ones perception including mine. My own path cleared me of distortion so consequently I am now free to just have an occasional glass of wine with dinner.

We all can get ourselves caught up in things where we lose our balance. There is nothing evil about it and no shame in it. Sometimes it just happens. But it is dificult to deal with alone. So if there is a problem, it is good to work with another who experientially knows how to deal with it.

This is only my impression from what you've written. If there is truth in it, remember I'm on your side as will be many others who understand these things.

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Re: Science and God

Post  BC on Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:35 pm

Bob, I dont mean to be a fuckass, but this place is for people to freely express their thinkings, ideals, analogies, thoughts. Please do not try to categorize what other people are trying to express. You might be 39, you certainly have more experience and wisdom them me, but dont try to offend others just because their thoughts dont appeal to yours... Take in everything..beginners mind.

Sorry to mess up ur thread steve, interesting topic, if it werent for the finals i would be replying... sorry

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Re: Science and God

Post  Bob on Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:53 am

You people are complete, and utter "nuts!" I mean this complete, and utter "fools!" You blindly follow what other people are saying without having the "sense" to figure it out yourself? You throw around philosophy like you understand it, and then you show you don't? I have met 13 year olds that are smarter, and more mature than you two, on university, and college campuses. People wake up, "smell the coffee!" Nick A you are a fool! I doubt that you can even read, I know that you can copy, and paste, but can you read with understanding? BC you are just plain immature person, you proved it!
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Re: Science and God

Post  Bob on Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:54 am

You people are literalists the worse kind of man that can cannot be. You take this book called the Bible, and make it say things that it does not state. The whole book contradicts itself, so that you cannot take it literal. Do you understand? There is the Judaic bible, the only reason that it is included in the with the Christian Bible is to prove Jesus was the Messiah (you know the chosen one.) Jesus changed all the Old Testament Laws, o.k.? It has been translated, so many times the meaning is lost. The King James Bible is literal it comes from I think William Tyndales Latin, now I may be wrong, but you two will be able to correct me, as you know, so much about the Bible, and understanding of the translations. I have taken classes on this subject, I have college level understanding of this Bible, and the many forms. Do you want to argue Theology with me, or just Religious understanding? You can even just sit there copy, and paste without understanding of what you are doing. You have awakened something that you cannot possibly understand! Do you understand? Your level of understanding will never compare to mine, you imbeciles.
"If you wish to converse with me, define you terms." Voltaire
"Most of the greatest evils that man has inflicted upon man have come through people feeling quite certain about something which, in fact, was false." Bertrand Russell
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Re: Science and God

Post  Nick_A on Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:30 am

Bob wrote:You people are literalists the worse kind of man that can cannot be. You take this book called the Bible, and make it say things that it does not state. The whole book contradicts itself, so that you cannot take it literal. Do you understand? There is the Judaic bible, the only reason that it is included in the with the Christian Bible is to prove Jesus was the Messiah (you know the chosen one.) Jesus changed all the Old Testament Laws, o.k.? It has been translated, so many times the meaning is lost. The King James Bible is literal it comes from I think William Tyndales Latin, now I may be wrong, but you two will be able to correct me, as you know, so much about the Bible, and understanding of the translations. I have taken classes on this subject, I have college level understanding of this Bible, and the many forms. Do you want to argue Theology with me, or just Religious understanding? You can even just sit there copy, and paste without understanding of what you are doing. You have awakened something that you cannot possibly understand! Do you understand? Your level of understanding will never compare to mine, you imbeciles.
"If you wish to converse with me, define you terms." Voltaire
"Most of the greatest evils that man has inflicted upon man have come through people feeling quite certain about something which, in fact, was false." Bertrand Russell

Again. why all the hostility? What is it that you believe you've come to understand that towers above others and you struggle so hard to defend?

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Re: Science and God

Post  Bob on Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:46 am

Put simply, you are a simple minded person.
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Re: Science and God

Post  BC on Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:57 pm

TO Nick A, you do have a lot of capacity, tolerance, patience inside you, impressed.

Bob
I guess what ever we say cannot budge the extreme belief that you have rooted in your mind.
Ms Kay, our teacher once told us: When someone criticizes you, and your about to explode, calm down. The person criticizing you is criticizing him or herself even more, wounding the inner feelings even deeper. If you take pleasure in wasting your time in calling others with the word: fool, then so be it.

Impressive aggression Bob, but the only word you can muster throughout the whole thread is Fool. Go learn some new vocab words before coming back....^^ Atleast make it enjoyable to read, for low level people like me, when im taking a small break from studying.

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Re: Science and God

Post  Luoh on Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:36 pm

HAAH haven't posted in a long time Very Happy Anyways, Nick. A, Steve, sorry i haven't ever replied to the posts. I've been studying for finals, so, haven't really been on the comp much Very Happy, i'll try to reply later.

Bob:
Why all the hostility? Sure, we all understand that you believe in what you believe in, but other people have their own views. Why else is their individuality? If we were all the same, why would there even be INDIVIDUALS?
People live through life differently then others, also have different outer influences. Especially like us, living in taiwan, we have different ways of seeing then you, nick, or anyone else does.

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Re: Science and God

Post  Bob on Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:53 pm

That explains it, I am arguing with a bunch of clever kids. Well it is about time you should use that individuality that you, so desire. Stop coping, and pasting the facts of what someone else stated, and use your own words, that is being original.
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Re: Science and God

Post  shawanne on Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:41 pm

People are having original discussions here, nobody's "copying" off each other. When people quote in their posts, they are not "copying" but are actually using those quotes to reinforce their points or to make a new, original point based on their own thoughts, not trying to pass other peoples' works off as their own. People are trying to reach new insights by civilized, spontaneous discussion, not by acting holier-than-thou and telling each other they are stupid or acting hostile towards each other. Please do not make allegations about any of us as you obviously do not know any of us here. If you want to discuss and debate with people here, fine, but the more you act hostile towards everyone else the less your argument stands its ground. Nobody here wants to listen to someone who is calling them 'fools' for no reason; if we are getting something wrong, tell us, but don't act like we are five-year-olds who know absolutely nothing. We may know less than you do, but nobody here is 'simple minded'.
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Re: Science and God

Post  BC on Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:56 pm

You quoted from the Bible yourself Bob.... look who's talking...

Why so immature for a 39 year old. After 39 years of obstacles and burdens in life, you are still so hotheaded and extreme? Looks like you have never really accepted your inner BEing...?

Its Craving for you to face your fears..Stop playing hide and seek with ego Bobby...

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Re: Science and God

Post  Nick_A on Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:56 pm

Hi BC

Ms Kay, our teacher once told us: When someone criticizes you, and your about to explode, calm down. The person criticizing you is criticizing him or herself even more, wounding the inner feelings even deeper. If you take pleasure in wasting your time in calling others with the word: fool, then so be it.


Simone Weil was born Feb 3, 1909 making this year the centennial year of her birth. So being involved with some presentations on this truly extraordinary person on the subject of transcendence, I've come across some real gems. She wrote:

"A hurtful act is the transference to others of the degradation which we bear in ourselves."

The Bible refers to it in John 8:

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

Here is a question your class could chew on. What is the role of the critic and why and how is it abused?

For example we have people being killed now on the streets of Iran. What is the role of the critic and who has the right to be one?

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Re: Science and God

Post  Nick_A on Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:07 am

Bob wrote:That explains it, I am arguing with a bunch of clever kids. Well it is about time you should use that individuality that you, so desire. Stop coping, and pasting the facts of what someone else stated, and use your own words, that is being original.

Where I live, you'd be lucky to find a kid concerned with anything other than the mundane. Here they discuss Emerson and Thoreau. According to Jacob Needleman the fall into materialism is due mostly from the inability to think on such things. Yet you want to attack such thought as the efforts of fools. Jacob Needleman wrote in the book "The American Soul."

Our world, so we see and hear on all sides, is drowning in materialism, commercialism, consumerism. But the problem is not really there. What we ordinarily speak of as materialism is a result, not a cause. The root of materialism is a poverty of ideas about the inner and outer world. Less and less does our contemporary culture have, or even seek, commerce with great ideas, and it is the lack that is weakening the human spirit. This is the essence of materialism. Materialism is a disease of the mind starved for ideas.

Throughout history ideas of a certain kind have been disseminated into the life of humanity in order to help human beings understand and feel the possibility of the deep inner change that would enable them to serve the purpose for which they were created, namely, to act in the world as conscious,individual instruments of God, and the ultimate principle of reality and value. Ideas of this kind are formulated in order to have a specific range of action on the human psych: to touch the heart as well as the intellect; to shock us into questioning our present understanding; to point us to the greatness around us in nature and the universe, and the potential greatness slumbering within ourselves; to open our eyes to the real needs of our neighbor; to confront us with our own profound ignorance and our criminal fears and egoism; to show us that we are not here for ourselves alone, but as necessary particles of divine love.

These are the contours of the ancient wisdom, considered as ideas embodied in religious and philosophical doctrines, works of sacred art,literature and music and, in a very fundamental way, an indication of practical methods by which a man or woman can work, as is said, to become what he or she really is. Without feeling the full range of such ideas, or sensing even a modest, but pure, trace of them, we are bound to turn for meaning.

If these people are doing the work of fools, we need more fools.

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Re: Science and God

Post  Bob on Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:10 am

"The good, say the mystics of spirit, is God, a being whose only definition is that he is beyond man's power to conceive--a definition that invalidates man's consciousness, and nullifies his concepts of existence...Man's mind, say the mystics of spirit, must be subordinated to the will of God...Man's standard of value, say the mystics of spirit, is the pleasure of God, whose standards are beyond man's power of comprehension, and must be accepted on faith...The purpose of man's life...is to become an abject zombie who serves a purpose be does not know, for reasons he is not to question."
[Ibid., 171; bd139] Ayn Rand

"The true value of a man is not determined by his possessions, supposed, or real, of Truth, but rather by his sincere exertion to get to the Truth. It is not possession of the Truth, but rather the pursuit of Truth by which he extends his powers, and in which his ever-growing perfectibility is to be found. Possession makes one passive, indolent, and proud. If God were to hold all Truth concealed in his right hand, and his left only the steady, and diligent drive for Truth, albeit with the proviso that I would always, and forever err in the process, and to offer me the choice, I would with all humility take the left hand."
Gotthold Lessing Anti - Goeze (1718)

We can play clever if you want, I have until college starts, how about you? My quotes will come from just more than one book.
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Re: Science and God

Post  BC on Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:46 am

Bob wrote:That explains it, I am arguing with a bunch of clever kids. Well it is about time you should use that individuality that you, so desire. Stop coping, and pasting the facts of what someone else stated, and use your own words, that is being original.

Thought u said stop quoting..?

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Re: Science and God

Post  Bob on Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:36 am

I'll take my leave as immaturity is the norm in this forum. I may not have agreed with you, or you me, but I did not see one original work from students to vistors' of this forum. That is a shame as I expected more from honor students.
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Re: Science and God

Post  joannneee on Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:14 pm

Brilliant thread Nick - I'll be sure to reply after we finish finals. Smile

I'll take my leave as immaturity is the norm in this forum. I may not have agreed with you, or you me, but I did not see one original work from students to vistors' of this forum. That is a shame as I expected more from honor students.

As I you. I expected a lot more from you as well, being 39 and all. The shame of this acquaintance is wholeheartedly returned.

Hopefully some day in the future we would reach an understanding, no?
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Re: Science and God

Post  Vincent_Lee on Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:35 pm

Bob wrote:I'll take my leave as immaturity is the norm in this forum. I may not have agreed with you, or you me, but I did not see one original work from students to vistors' of this forum. That is a shame as I expected more from honor students.

What irony then that you be the immature one here, with your head up your own ass and going around making personal attacks on people. Now if you had remained civil, we might not be faced with this situation but you just had to go call Steve and Nick insane fools and be a boorish egomaniac. Yes, clearly we are the immature ones here. Tell me, is being an asshole an integral part of your precious notions of individuality and orginality? I'll just assume the answer to that question is yes since your judgment has clearly been shown here to be faulty, whether the cause of it be a psychological disorder, childhood neglect by Mommy and abuse from Daddy, bad alcohol in combination with poor self-control, or a bad draw from the gene pool.

Hrm, funny I thought middle-aged men were supposed to have some degree of maturity, or at least pretend that they do. You have not demonstrated either qualities. In fact, you've behaved quite similarly to angry 4th graders, bickering over whether to watch Sesame Street or barney. Please, go ahead and take your leave. We are pleased to be rid of you.

If you feel you have a point to prove and find yourself typing up yet another angry, incoherent rant, please, stop. Save what little dignity you have left.
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Re: Science and God

Post  shawanne on Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:51 pm

I'll take my leave as immaturity is the norm in this forum. I may not have agreed with you, or you me, but I did not see one original work from students to vistors' of this forum. That is a shame as I expected more from honor students.

People may disagree with each other all the time, but the moment one starts calling another 'stupid' without reflecting on his own thoughts one has already lost the fight. Sounds familiar? It should. Every single person who has replied on this thread have acted with more maturity and originality than you have.

So leave, then. It would make this forum a happier one.

:K
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Re: Science and God

Post  Kenny on Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:19 pm

Okaaay, seeing as no one is taking the faster and more direct approach, I will.

Hey bob, or asshole, can I call you asshole? I think it sounds more you. Yeah? Thanks.
Shut the hell up you dumbass. If you ever come back again, and post more crap about our class and other members of the forum, we'll ban you. Easy as that.

You have a good day now. Dick wad.

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Re: Science and God

Post  Nick_A on Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:38 am

Vincent_Lee

Hrm, funny I thought middle-aged men were supposed to have some degree of maturity, or at least pretend that they do.

Ah, but at this age we become increasingly aware of a fact that convinces us regardless of much of New Age philosophy that we are not God. It can lead to many grumbles. Wink Nietzsch expresses it well.

"The abdomen is the reason why man does not readily take himself to be a god." Nietzsche

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Re: Science and God

Post  Bob on Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:00 am

I am a rationalist philosopher, o.k.? You proved you are immature, you take words you do not understand, and riddle them to your liking. If you are going to quote Jung please read his work, and stop riddling that too. You are going to speak of banning me, and then you quote Nietzsche? You use profane language all throughout your responses, you do know there are other words that are not profane that have the same definitions. I may be 39 years old, but wisdom from what that is the question, as I see it you do not need age, but some reading, and hard work. You people need to pick up a dictionary, and start reading. Sitting in front of a computer, and ridiculing me shows your wisdom. I stated something that is correct, if you read then you can write. I am wrong, you have the wishes of a two year old. Everybody wants a heaven, I do believe in a god, but not the God of Abraham. I have read about too much destruction in his name. Why do we have a separation of Church, and State here in the United States? I myself doubted, as I did not wonder, and read history books, and found out why. I read the King James Bible, and then took classes on this subject. Then I realized why, I would tell you, but then I don't think you would understand. You want what you want, do you need this? I am not sure, but you will do what you want in life. If you want be like Benjamin Franklin try to imitate Jesus, and Socrates as your virtues, and then rate yourself daily. But first you have to find out who Jesus was, and Socrates this may not be an easy task, but you have time, and as I see you want experience, so go for it. If rationality is not your choice, and empiricism is look around, and "smell the coffee," that is your choice, am I wrong? If you are going to respond to this, please show your maturity, as I have a dictionary several in fact, and can look up the words I do not know. You are in some special class for the gifted student, well prove it, and stop acting like your ignorant peers, or is that you? I doubt that is you, because you were handpicked I am sure for this class? Is this wrong, or right, and if you are going to argue something to me, at least have read the work with understanding.
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